Lumenier RB2205C-12 2400KV SKITZO Ceramic Bearing Motor
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 10:53 AM
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Hobbyking 1/5th Scale Nitro Bike

## I will maintain this page linking to relevant posts/information as it happens. Check the edit date for last post details##

Thought I would start a dedicated thread to this bike. Like most RC Bike stuff it seems hard to find any info on this bike, so this is the place to stick it, for future hobbyking buyers. please add anything you like...

Overview/Thoughts:
Been running this since Feb 2nd 2016. Bikes are hard to drive, much harder than cars. The engine starting is a PITA (see fix below). There is so much to focus on when your learning that the only way is a large parking lot. Once you get the starting routine going, keeping it running is important I have played with the RPM screw (run it fast) and ground a flat on the clunk - both help. As a package except for the servos that I killed, its all stock and runs, that's to say if you want a RTR bike then this will fit the bill. The headshake is an issue if you cant solve it then mask it with a damper. I cut a bit of FRP and attached it to the steering rake chassis plates. The metal and screws are soft but don't crash heavy and they should last. If you do crash carefully bend stuff back. Last point this (bikes) is something you will need to be prepared to spend time on and be prepared to make parts - bike parts are rare and so making stuff will help keep you running.

The Review:
Obviously they are cheap. They are almost ready to run, just add a receiver. They are cloned Thunder Tiger Ducati 999r so find that manual and you have the info you need to set up for the first run. Just Google "Ducati 999r Thunder Tiger RTR manual" in case this link is not working when you find this page...
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/404...?page=3#manual

I used 25% nitro and started with the main needle on the engine 3 turns out. There is no mixture control screw but there is an idle adjust screw hidden away behind the air filter.

Before you start
Read and adjust using the RTR manual above (running the chain loose is OK ignore the 2mm note - its too tight with on 2mm. Then things to check..

1) Mine needed Loctite throughout the whole bike.
2) The air filter foam was not fully attached to the rubber mount
3) The steering rod was bent
4) The throttle servo burned out very quickly - on the bench. The steering servo wanders. I planned on replacing these anyway so no biggie.
5) My remote glow did not have any real power - lit the glow but only a mild glow not a hot bright glow at all. Traced it to the spring that attaches to the glow plug. Replaced this with a croc clip - all good.
6) My engine mount slots where a bit misshaped, needed filing a little to be able to adjust the mesh between the clutch bell pinion and the main gear.
7) Clunk line was too long pushing the clunk into the corner of the tank. Trimmed it so its free to move.
OPTION:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...09&postcount=1
8) Rear shock will need oil, 5000 - 10000 wt 1/8th RC car diff oil seems to be the best. Note: grub screw under swing arm retains the pin holding the bottom of the shock.
9) My engine was a rust bucket. I will post bearing sizes once I have them.

Not an issue as such but the engine is started via the back plate, all my helis start from the crank shaft so my starter needed to be reversed to run clockwise.

Running.
1) Starting
See thread contents basically its a blast . The biggest issue I face - and I am not a nitro newbie - is first run starts. I will link to exactly why but there are many helpful posts...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=110
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...06&postcount=3
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...22&postcount=6
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=94
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=95
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=96
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=99

2)Headshake
You've got to have the basics set, see here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=61
However the TTN is notorious for it - just search this forum. I fitted a damper and this made the bike feel amazingly planted
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=112

3) One way starter bearing. This slipped on me. It is easy to clean and re-lube just don't abuse it when it slips, stop and go clean it. Took all of about 20 mins - its fully accessible. I sprayed it clean with "brake and clutch cleaner" - I use this on all RC stuff. Then I re-lubed with some "Align one way" bearing grease.

4) Crashbars
Metal bars are easy to make from 2.5mm piano wire, are cheap, plus easy to source, available almost everywhere. However they "catch" the road and can cause the bike to jump or the front to washout. Nylon is a superior option, you will need to make new mounts for the bars or drill out the exiting ones.

Nylon
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=135
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=143
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=145
Metal - stock size 2.5mm piano wire
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=137

Bikes first ever start - this was not a problem its future starts that cause issues see above.
Hobbyking 1/5 scale nitro first start (0 min 24 sec)
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 11:26 AM
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Good idea for a thread, since the TTN is long gone having been replaced by this less than perfect machine. It would be good for people (especially beginners) to see what can be done to make it more fun and reliable.

If I remember correctly, the first thing we did was to take out the sirio engine and drop in something better. The clutchbell on these clones is an alloy, that would be another place where something can be done.

I noticed that all the parts for this on HK are on backorder, which is too bad, they are very cheap. Would be nice to pick up some spare bits.
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgeheli View Post
Got to my place and found I had forgotten the glow plug wrench and the engine was flooded / hydro locked!

Drove home, thought hmnn looong lunch Popped back to the run area and ... starter battery was flat!!! Arghhh - gave up tail between the legs.

I realise now that these little engines flood very very easily. So I am just trying to figure out how to leave it empty using various fuel pipe clips and running out the fuel.
Allready told you: it is not the fuel flooding the engine, but the oil residue from the tailpipe slowly dribbling back into the cylinder.

No amount of clips or re-routed tubing is going to fix that. Only known cure is to store the bike either vertical or upside down, or maybe laying on its side, wheels off the ground. Anything that prevents the oil trickling down....

There is also no need to remove the plug when a flooding happens: just tilt the bike vertical (upside down is also possible, but then, since you are starting and the tank is full) fuel will flow in the carb.

So, vertical it is then. now first gently rock back and forth the flywheel, to clear the cylinder, once it is sufficiently cleared, with wide open throttle apply the starter for one or two seconds, close the throttle, connect glowplug power, and start as usual, all the time keeping the bike vertical.

At first it is a bit awkward holding the bike vertical when starting, but it is VERY doable (mind: when I had my bike, it only had a recoil starter, so holding the bike vertical while pulling the string was really something I had to learn how to...).

Thanks for this thread, since I am still thinking about getting me one. I don't want to spend hundreds of euros, but the attraction of a Nitro bike has never left....

As for spare parts: Hard to say how the quality of this particular make is, but the old SF501, the only thing I ever have needed was a new shock body after an end-over-end pulled the cap off and damaged the thread. A good bottomstop should cure that, other than that, nothing really broke....
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 12:39 PM
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Thanks for the advice I will try that method for unblocking the engine. Like you say it all takes a bit of getting used to. Ive got a car and a heli and both have their quirks. Just hope that I get a chance for a run tomorrow.
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 12:43 PM
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As long as you use a bit patience, it works.... You would not want to know, how many times I have had a blocked engine, and no plugspanner.... and all I had was a recoilstarter....

Don't worry, you'll get there, just be careful because from the HK website comments, I see plenty people messed up their starter shaft or inner hex, and I presume it is because these flooding issues.
Nuova Faor at the time clearly mentioned it in their instructions, to always store and start the bike vertical.
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 01:01 PM
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Brutus1967 is on the money about the oil "flooding" and starting it and storing it upright. Not doing this is exactly the reason so many TTn owners went through tons of one-way bearings in the starter assembly.

Because of the baffles in the muffler, there's no straight path for oil to come out, even when the bike is upright. You'll occasionally have to separate the muffler from the header and dump oil out. Keep that pack of zip ties handy.
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 02:13 PM
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Excellent thread hedgeheli!! I took mine out yesterday and rad a couple of tanks through it, amazing just how much power this little engine will produce. I got the front wheel to come off the ground a couple of times.
I had to stop because I obviously forgot to Loctite the screws holding the front fork assy to the main frame and lost a screw and spacer. So this morning I machined more spacers and installed with hex head screws instead of the phillips screws.
One thing I need to do is put heavier oil in the steering dampener, had some pretty bad wheel shimmy at fast speeds. Probably what shook everything apart.
The dampener that comes with the bike have no oil, just a couple of springs. I got lucky and purchased some oil filled dampeners from Tower Hobbies when they still had stock.
So what helis do you have Hedge? I have two .50 size nitro, one .90 size Trex 700, one electric Trex600, and a couple of Trex450's.
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 02:18 PM
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Hey Brutus, found out the hard way about holding the bike upside down when starting. It is a bit of a fuss but you can reach the throttle lever and you don't have to worry about the bike running away when it starts.
I really like this bike, because it was cheap and a good learning platform. Guess that is why I received my second one in the mail today!
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prontow View Post
Hey Brutus, found out the hard way about holding the bike upside down when starting.
Yeah, it is, isn't it?

Due to the recoil starter, I had to hold the front wheel in left hand, tip the bike backwards so it was standing on the tailpipe with the rear wheel off the ground, place my foot against the tail-end to prevent pulling the bike away when starting, and tug the cord with the other hand.

On the other hand, that engine has nearly always ran dependable from start to empty tank, so it was not that bad.

During weekdays it was standing normally on the shelf on its paddockstand, but fridayevening I had to stand it vertically, and during the afternoon running it, inbetween runs always, litterally ALWAYS keep it vertical because it would flood in 5 minutes...

I really had a great time riding it, even if I was the only bike rider in maybe 50 miles around and driving on a track (even though ours was just an improvised one) amidst cars, is FAR from optimal: These car fellows don't understand the limitations in manouverability, assume you can brake just as fast, and swerve aside just as quickly, and they take the right of way totally unaware that with a bike, once you are forced off your line, you're done for....

With more bikes together, you more or less follow the same lines, and no bike is going to make an unpredictable movement. Or so I imagine, since I was the only one.

But fortunately, every now and then they would give me the track for myself for 10 minutes or so.

I am more and more considering this HK bike....
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 04:08 PM
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Hey Brutus I have been watching the stock levels from hobby King and the only warehouse with stock is the one in California USA. They are showing 4, but been at 4 for the last week.
I am afraid that the thing will be replacement parts.
Right now I have only run the bike a couple of times but I seem to be getting better and figuring out how to set the bike up. So far this engine seems strong but there are plenty of options that can be dropped in place.
I would love to be able to run at a track instead of a parking lot, but I don't think there is any kind of RC road course within 500 miles of where I am at.
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus1967 View Post
Yeah, it is, isn't it?

Due to the recoil starter, I had to hold the front wheel in left hand, tip the bike backwards so it was standing on the tailpipe with the rear wheel off the ground, place my foot against the tail-end to prevent pulling the bike away when starting, and tug the cord with the other hand.

On the other hand, that engine has nearly always ran dependable from start to empty tank, so it was not that bad.

During weekdays it was standing normally on the shelf on its paddockstand, but fridayevening I had to stand it vertically, and during the afternoon running it, inbetween runs always, litterally ALWAYS keep it vertical because it would flood in 5 minutes...

I really had a great time riding it, even if I was the only bike rider in maybe 50 miles around and driving on a track (even though ours was just an improvised one) amidst cars, is FAR from optimal: These car fellows don't understand the limitations in manouverability, assume you can brake just as fast, and swerve aside just as quickly, and they take the right of way totally unaware that with a bike, once you are forced off your line, you're done for....

With more bikes together, you more or less follow the same lines, and no bike is going to make an unpredictable movement. Or so I imagine, since I was the only one.

But fortunately, every now and then they would give me the track for myself for 10 minutes or so.

I am more and more considering this HK bike....
The Skippy club almost always seemed to have a bike hanging vertical to help during starting procedure (Absolute nitro nuts they are!)

Quote:
These car fellows don't understand the limitations in manouverability, assume you can brake just as fast, and swerve aside just as quickly, and they take the right of way totally unaware that with a bike, once you are forced off your line, you're done for....

It's elbows out and ride your line in some respects. Although you do not wish to crash their lines, sometimes it is tough love. They have that stable platform and ability to twist and turn at will where as we do not.
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Bradbury View Post

It's elbows out and ride your line in some respects. Although you do not wish to crash their lines, sometimes it is tough love. They have that stable platform and ability to twist and turn at will where as we do not.
I know what you mean.... but simply not doable at the track we had at the time (pretty tight and narrow, wooden boarding on a kind of parking lot): At the end I had my lines fairly worked out, knew the way around the track, brake points etc etc. That NF did not have very serious brakes and only the "fuel tubing steering system", so coming down the back straight, I had to set the bike up for the next corner say 30~40 ft before the entry. Nothing left to do but full lock steering in and braking all you've got. So you are hoping nothing gets in your way.
These car guys were totally unaware that a bike has nowhere to go: you can't brake any quicker or you'll loose the front and fall. You can't change your line inside cause you're on full steering lock, or upright the bike, then you'd hit the sideboards. Can't let go of the brake or you won't make the corner.
But they expect you to, so they try to hook in front of you or pass you on the inside while the bike is creeping to the inside of the turn. Then simply say something like "I had passed you so you are obliged to avoid me".... Getting hit by one of these 60 mph+ wedgeshaped formula cars, ain't no fun then as it seriously launches the bike.

I have never ridden together with other bikes, but I assume, they are all more or less following the same lines, and in case of contact, not really launching each other, like these formula cars do to a bike....

It was one of the reasons to stop riding. Later I had a Venom GPV-1, real fun little bike, but it never gave me the same "feel" that the Nitro did....
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Brutus1967 View Post
I know what you mean.... but simply not doable at the track we had at the time (pretty tight and narrow, wooden boarding on a kind of parking lot): At the end I had my lines fairly worked out, knew the way around the track, brake points etc etc. That NF did not have very serious brakes and only the "fuel tubing steering system", so coming down the back straight, I had to set the bike up for the next corner say 30~40 ft before the entry. Nothing left to do but full lock steering in and braking all you've got. So you are hoping nothing gets in your way.
These car guys were totally unaware that a bike has nowhere to go: you can't brake any quicker or you'll loose the front and fall. You can't change your line inside cause you're on full steering lock, or upright the bike, then you'd hit the sideboards. Can't let go of the brake or you won't make the corner.
But they expect you to, so they try to hook in front of you or pass you on the inside while the bike is creeping to the inside of the turn. Then simply say something like "I had passed you so you are obliged to avoid me".... Getting hit by one of these 60 mph+ wedge shaped formula cars, ain't no fun then as it seriously launches the bike
Sounds like biking to me! Very good description of some of the things that happen on track. Even bikes have that 'different' line...

Off Topic message ends.
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 05:00 PM
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The more I remember about it, the more it makes me want to get one of these HK Nitros....

I am no racer (I hate the competition element) I just want to DRIVE....
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Old Feb 02, 2016, 05:46 PM
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Not being a "racer" is not an issue in getting track time.

I went to a big meeting last year and in a week I only had one run when it didn't feel right (head in wrong space).

For the record my best lap was 4 seconds slower then the next slowest rider, never mind the aliens at the front. But I learnt a lot and boy a whole week at the track is FUN!
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