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Old May 19, 2015, 07:36 AM
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Peter Madsen
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Denmark
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One minute on ground before window

With previous talk about the tasks being to easy and not creating enough separation in the top, I was wondering who will be the first to try using the 'no flying the last minute before window starts' option the rules have, in a bigger contest in the states?

We have uses it in Denmark and had good success with it, in both a national competition and Euro tour competition. I for one really likes it, as is challenge your ground reading skills, and you can't rely on flying right up to the window and finding good air upwind. We also already does it in AULD, so it's really nothing new.

Anybody up for a try? Would be really interesting hearing what you think of it.
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Old May 19, 2015, 10:16 AM
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Kyle Clayton
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I didn't stay up to date with the new optional rule, is the pre-window time still 3 minutes if the 1 minute no-fly is active? And is there is penalty if you are airborne from a test flight and not on the ground before the 1 minute no-fly?

I'd try it. I'm usually on the ground around 1:00-0:45 prior to working time anyway as I don't want to be giving away a read if I have one
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Old May 19, 2015, 10:40 AM
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Peter Madsen
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This http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...php?p=29063847 probably explains it better then I can.
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Old May 19, 2015, 12:12 PM
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Kyle Clayton
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That answers it all, thanks!
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Old May 19, 2015, 12:45 PM
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Oleg Golovidov
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I would like to see this option being used at larger contests.

I think for All-up task it should be mandatory (no flying for 1 minute prior to the first launch). I tried submitting a proposal about this, but it was mixed with other changes and was not well received (maybe too complicated) and withdrawn.
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Old May 19, 2015, 12:57 PM
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Boring. It's not like any good pilot can't read anyone else's plane in the air. Someone scouting is in reality scouting for everyone on the field. Pilots make the choice about whether they want to keep what they think they know secret, or scout it to tell the field. It is part of the strategy.

Gerald
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Old May 19, 2015, 01:18 PM
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Where is the lift?
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I'm in favor of scouting but this rule will not change my routine very much. As stated above, I generally get my scouting done before 1 min to window. It becomes more critical when the breeze is blowing around 5mph or more. This will just add another chance to get penalized and add to the complexity of flying competitions. No real biggie either way. If the rule is changed to the extreme, meaning no flying (trim/scouting) before any window then that would be a game changer.

Charlie
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Old May 19, 2015, 01:45 PM
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Yes part of the strategy...I like scouting when it's possible and trying to hide good air when I find it.
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Old May 19, 2015, 02:44 PM
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+1
No biggie. Doesn't really affect much IMHO.

I'd rather see the 'Land on the buzzer' rule come back but that's another thread.

Soar!
Jun

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptsnoopy View Post
I'm in favor of scouting but this rule will not change my routine very much. As stated above, I generally get my scouting done before 1 min to window. It becomes more critical when the breeze is blowing around 5mph or more. This will just add another chance to get penalized and add to the complexity of flying competitions. No real biggie either way. If the rule is changed to the extreme, meaning no flying (trim/scouting) before any window then that would be a game changer.

Charlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by G_T View Post
Boring. It's not like any good pilot can't read anyone else's plane in the air. Someone scouting is in reality scouting for everyone on the field. Pilots make the choice about whether they want to keep what they think they know secret, or scout it to tell the field. It is part of the strategy.

Gerald
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Old May 19, 2015, 03:42 PM
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I think it would be interesting to try this option on a regular basis.

If there is no one scouting, I think it will make a difference (at least for some who are active scouters). While I don't scout much I do watch others that do. If no one is in the air, I think it will make things more interesting - especially for tasks like Poker and the three 200 second flights.

Tom
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Old May 19, 2015, 04:09 PM
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might be a good idea for the top guys - but would totally disadvantage those of us that fly "middle of the pack" that need all the help we can get
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Old May 19, 2015, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiesling View Post
I think it would be interesting to try this option on a regular basis.
Tom
My opinion is that the rule intentions can be very site, or perhaps tent placement, dependent.

Reading the air helps if there are indicators. When sites do not have trees, tall grasses, or anything that can display their reactions to the wind/thermals, then reading defaults to the local transmitter flags. Some of us have them, Right?

If a contest has thermal poles with ribbons, then they mimic the natural ground based objects. If, like Freeflighters, a thermal indicator is placed upwind of the launch zone, then pilots might congregate around at the edge of a field where a graphic display might be mounted in order to get some indication of a thermal passing through, or its rate of passage.

Going further, you could have your "helper" there and he would yell to you where the thermal might be , at least for the start, and thereafter rely in the "rabbits" upwind of you. Or, if you are like me, you would think about developing a system that can actually tell you were on a huge field you might launch, and display it on a computer screen.

So what happened to the rule proposal that move the tents away from the field boundary, and thus move a thermal ribbon away from interfering with any plane's flight path?

At a recent contest I attended, there were no great indicators, and if the rule was used, fewer maxes might have been obtained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopherhunter View Post
Yes part of the strategy...I like scouting when it's possible and trying to hide good air when I find it.
Yeah, like we can't see what happens in a single circle. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcats View Post
+1
...I'd rather see the 'Land on the buzzer' rule come back but that's another thread.
Jun
Great idea since I have flown that in the early IHLGF's, but it adds a lot more pilot thought and decisions to a flight and how it is handled. However, try to convince the rest of the world to run this rule would be a problem. Most prefer the "safe" option of being able to fly around the sink to get back home. Just think how it would affect any ladder type task or the 1,2,3,4 max task. Poker would be fun too, since you would have to call a slightly lower time to be sure you were on the ground. But then there is the 3 second cushion of the buzzer. Who really times that accurately, really now?

The only advantage of the buzzer rule was that everyone is walking off the field at the same time. In my opinion, the idea that the 30 second landing time is a safety issue is bogus, especially when there is no organization of re-launches, etc.

Chris
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Old May 19, 2015, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptsnoopy View Post
I'm in favor of scouting but this rule will not change my routine very much. As stated above, I generally get my scouting done before 1 min to window. It becomes more critical when the breeze is blowing around 5mph or more. This will just add another chance to get penalized and add to the complexity of flying competitions. No real biggie either way. If the rule is changed to the extreme, meaning no flying (trim/scouting) before any window then that would be a game changer.

Charlie
What he said ^^^
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Old May 19, 2015, 05:52 PM
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I don't really care if "scouting" is allowed or not allowed, but how would it be administered? i.e. how's it being done in Europe?

When can I fly my plane? After the previous window buzzer or after the previous 30 second landing window?

How do I know I'm coming up on the 1 min no-fly time? Is there yet another countdown? How many will recognized this and launch thinking it's the beginning of working time?

And the more I think about having a "land before the buzzer" the more I kinda like it... Maybe something like a 10 landing point bonus?
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Old May 19, 2015, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfinch View Post
And the more I think about having a "land before the buzzer" the more I kinda like it... Maybe something like a 10 landing point bonus?
Traditionally the penalty for overflying the window was that your last flight's time is halved.

Worked out to be pretty fair, however that was before poker. Should a "made" call get half credit or should the reduction of flight time cause the call to be unmade? This penalty would also play havoc with an all-in call, as you'd have add margin for your landing as well as your launch....
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