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Old May 01, 2008, 01:32 AM
what it do everybody?
zaskarkid's Avatar
a swamp naturally
Joined Mar 2008
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Yippee!
3rd time's the charm: finally flew an aileron plane - estarter

Disclaimer: If anything, you'll see that I made a boat load of mistakes, so read, but follow at your own risk

...on the first pack, I was all over the place. I almost gave myself a haircut. The plane seems to beg for a combo of ailerons+rudder to turn, so that's turning a plane with two thumbs. But the turn is smoother and cleaner then my cub, which flies suberb with rudder only. The estarter aileron response is quite good and easy. I tried a simple 3d plane (which was my 2nd attempt at aileron flying) and that thing was completely PSCYHO Ė the maiden lasted less then a minute. Two nights worth of work and 35 bucks down the toilet.

I didnít read all of the recent post on the estarter, so guess what? I lost my landing gear.

But check this. While I was searching the field for my landing gear, I accidentally caught one of the radio switches on my jeans and I discovered the N, 1, & 2. This causes the ailerons to both dip down, and further down, but they are still usable as ailerons. Even with throttle on, the plane can be slowed down to a craw. Hot diggity dang!

So I have more control over the landing and it be nice and slow. Before, I would come in without power b/c landing with the motor on is too dramatic, I mean traumatic. Now, I'm landing the plane like somone who knows how to fly But thatís assuming I donít crash on the approach b/c Iím one handed when I use the switch. Someday Iíll learn how to use my opposable thumb and index finger so that I donít have to take my whole hand off to activate the switch. It's not easy: the bloody switch has 3 positions. The weird thing is I never programmed that switch or any switch. And this was only possible b/c I screwed up the aileron build and so I just hot glued two separate servos to the wing.

And yeh I know, using up all that power for flaps is not being green and energy conscious, but I need all the help I can get.


After snapping the egg carton wing on my cub several times, in flight , I did fiberglass the underside of the wing, just past the point of the wing rod. And added a strip of carbon fiber instead of the metal rod in the elevator.

Unlike anything before, this plane seems to handle steep dives without wing flap, and with a little throttle and flaps, it can slow fly with the best of em. Can't wait to try it out in winds that would have the club flying sideways.

Here it is. The landing gear you see is salvaged from my 1st aileron plane (gws 400 tigerhell).

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Old May 01, 2008, 01:55 AM
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Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!

You are now an official "aileron" flyer...

And you picked (as far as I'm concerned) the single BEST aileron trainer sold today in the GWS E-Starter!

Good job...

Chuck
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Old May 01, 2008, 02:03 AM
what it do everybody?
zaskarkid's Avatar
a swamp naturally
Joined Mar 2008
664 Posts
You know I'm a complete blockhead. A month ago, I read your blog about how you've flown a million planes and yet you really like this one. I should have gotten one of these sooner.
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Old May 01, 2008, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaskarkid
You know I'm a complete blockhead. A month ago, I read your blog about how you've flown a million planes and yet you really like this one. I should have gotten one of these sooner.
Hi zaskar,

That's usually the reaction a LOT of people have when they fly one of these ill fitting, beer cooler foam, cheap E-Starters for the first time!

I think I'm on my 4th one now, and when I pile this one in (sooner or later, I always do), I'll have yet another one...

Chuck
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Old May 01, 2008, 08:29 AM
Watch out for that TREE!
Houston, Tx
Joined Oct 2006
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Congrats, the E-starter is a great plane. Like Chuck, I'm on my fourth. Lots of mods for them also. Take out the wing dihedral, clip the wing tips and you've got a whole new plane.

John
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Old May 01, 2008, 03:11 PM
what it do everybody?
zaskarkid's Avatar
a swamp naturally
Joined Mar 2008
664 Posts
Chuck, your servo install on the wings looks like it was done at the factory. But aren't you the least bit worried about weakening the wing. Even with a good 18" wide layer of 3/4oz fiberglass/epoxy, I've had some wings fold or tear during steep dives. I suppose high wing planes shouldn't be asked to dive like a zero bomber
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Old May 01, 2008, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaskarkid
Chuck, your servo install on the wings looks like it was done at the factory. But aren't you the least bit worried about weakening the wing. Even with a good 18" wide layer of 3/4oz fiberglass/epoxy, I've had some wings fold or tear during steep dives. I suppose high wing planes shouldn't be asked to dive like a zero bomber
Hi zaskar,

I have a confession to make. I've never actually put any of my planes into a power dive... even once.

The closest I ever come is to put them into an unpowered dive to see how they react when I take my hands off the sticks.

Chuck
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Old May 03, 2008, 07:33 PM
what it do everybody?
zaskarkid's Avatar
a swamp naturally
Joined Mar 2008
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update: I just flew this thing in 15mph winds! Taking off was really hairy. The whole time I was there, a small group with a kite couldn't get airborne b/c it was so gusty. But once up, it was a lot more manageable. It's a mild brushless doing about 130watts, so it would just hover when pointed in the wind, but downwind was a hoot. I even rigged a release servo to tow my nephews 2ft lifoam glider. Estarter is a riot, I'm gonna build a spare.



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Old May 03, 2008, 10:18 PM
Pushin' the Limits
Olias's Avatar
Bellingham,WA.
Joined Jan 2008
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ailerons & Dihedral

On a side note.....I'm looking at the pic of the E-Starter (pretty much the 1st time I've seen it, up close at least) and noticing how much (for a plane w/ailerons) dihedral that thing has! I'm a bit confused. I'm in the middle of modding out a wing to put ailerons on it (it's in the garage being totally flattened as we speak!) and was lead to believe after much reading on the subject that if a wing has dihedral in it that it kind of negates the effects of ailerons. I'm speaking of the Super Cub of course.

So I guess my question is, if the E-Starter is such a great aileron "trainer" and it has so much dihedral then should I have left "some" dihedral in my cub's wing? I'm a bit confused (not surprisingly ).

Bryan
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Old May 03, 2008, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias
On a side note.....I'm looking at the pic of the E-Starter (pretty much the 1st time I've seen it, up close at least) and noticing how much (for a plane w/ailerons) dihedral that thing has! I'm a bit confused. I'm in the middle of modding out a wing to put ailerons on it (it's in the garage being totally flattened as we speak!) and was lead to believe after much reading on the subject that if a wing has dihedral in it that it kind of negates the effects of ailerons. I'm speaking of the Super Cub of course.

So I guess my question is, if the E-Starter is such a great aileron "trainer" and it has so much dihedral then should I have left "some" dihedral in my cub's wing? I'm a bit confused (not surprisingly ).

Bryan
Hi Bryan,

I've read that same 'truism' on RC Groups quite a few times. I can see where having a wing with no dihedral at all would give you a plane that is capable of precise aerobatics and pattern style flying, with sharp, clean axial rolls.

And it's true that my true point and shoot planes have no dihedral to them. My Carl Goldberg Husky 400 was a high wing plane that flew like a raped ape, wouldn't help me fly it at all, and ultimately got totalled... lol It had zero dihedral.

My Formosa has no dihedral, and it too is a plane that has to be flown constantly, with no forgiveness to it at all. My Fokker DVII is the same way, and so is the SE-5A. These are both biplanes with straight wings.

On the other hand, I have 3 low wing planes that have dihedral in them, and while they are pretty aerobatic planes, there is still a certain amount of forgiveness to them because of the slight dihedral.

I think this 'truism' is correct to some degree, in that the true point and shoot planes do not in fact have dihedral. But I also think it erroneously evolved into the adage that a "wing with dihedral negates the effect of ailerons".

To put it gently, it's just plain hogwash...

Chuck
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Old May 03, 2008, 11:43 PM
what it do everybody?
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a swamp naturally
Joined Mar 2008
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I can't talk aerodynamics, but I do have both wings in their stock form. I've used a sc wing on a beaver. The stock sc wing has a little more diahedral then the estarter and it's much thicker and wider at 48". When I first saw the thinner profile, small wingspan, & tapered edges, I was worried that the e might fly too fast. Well it can. [There's a video of a 280watt monster e with no aerodynamic mods doing knife edges inches from the ground on recent e post]

But the e won't drop a wing or give you a death stall, when you slow it down. So yeh, I'm glad there's diahedral. I tried a 3d plane which had a full profile wing with no diahedral. Even though it was light at about 300g, it would drop in a heart beat when it lost airspeed. But that doesn't mean you can't have any fun with the e. My idea of a good time is to drop into a steep dive and then level out at the last moment, and then hit flaps & throttle for a in your face put-put slow flyby. And the plane doesn't stall & smash it's belly on the tarmac nor does it come at me like a comet. So flaperons are thumbs up.

On my 3ch, I used to fly straight, then turn...and repeat. But on this baby, I can do a giant full circle turn around two soccer fields and it's jaw-dropping pretty. The ailerons are definitely effective on this "v" wing.
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Old May 04, 2008, 09:52 AM
Pushin' the Limits
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Bellingham,WA.
Joined Jan 2008
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Thanks for that feedback guys, that's pretty much what I thought. You're right though in that the E-Starter has a thinner wing and that makes a difference also. So really I guess it's kind of hard to compare apples to oranges and come up with a definitive answer that works for "all" planes. Guess I'll just have to experiment a bit and if need be maybe bend just a little dihedral back in if needed. I'm glad I still have the original wing and can just pop that back on any time I want some very relaxed floatin' and gliding style flyin'.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread zaskarkid, my apologies. Thanks for the input.

Bryan
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Old May 04, 2008, 10:08 AM
Mt. Dora, Florida
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Joined Dec 2006
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Chuck sold me on the Estarter last year and love flying mine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFlyZone
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!

You are now an official "aileron" flyer...

And you picked (as far as I'm concerned) the single BEST aileron trainer sold today in the GWS E-Starter!

Good job...

Chuck
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Old May 04, 2008, 07:00 PM
what it do everybody?
zaskarkid's Avatar
a swamp naturally
Joined Mar 2008
664 Posts
no worries Bryan, that's an interesting question. The foam on the sc wing is also more flexible then the estarter foam. So the sc wing would bend and gain dihedral on dives But it seems to be good for absorbing crashes.
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