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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:49 PM
LcJ
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Originally Posted by Gerald View Post
What makes you think your musings on Christianity are more worthy of consideration than Jefferson's?
Steelfaith is a Christian and as I have said, the Bible appears differently through the eyes of a Christian and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:55 PM
Useful Idiot
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Originally Posted by LcJ View Post
Steelfaith is a Christian and as I have said, the Bible appears differently through the eyes of a Christian and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
What makes Steelfath more Christian than Jefferson, then?
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:55 PM
LcJ
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Originally Posted by sgtdirt View Post
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that it is the Christian's duty to remain "neutral" during warfare. In countries throughout the world, many have faced imprisonment and even death for their conscientious objection to bearing arms in war.

http://4witness.org/jehovahs_witness/war.php

What have i done?

mmm...one only has to look at my avatar to get an answer. maybe you know what RLTW means. but then again, maybe you don't. BTW, i've got six more years than you.
It is interesting to note, and you probably know this, Jesus never criticized Roman soldiers, Roman Law, or even those soldiers who put Him on the Cross. In fact He forgave them from the Cross saying, "Forgive them for they know not what they do." He also said the greatest faith He saw was in a Roman Centurion.

Just think people need to remember those things.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:57 PM
LcJ
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Originally Posted by martin richards View Post
What makes Steelfath more Christian than Jefferson, then?
Because I have never read a statement of Jefferson's faith and I have of Steelfaith. His general posting pattern indicates his believe pattern and as such could be considered his fruits.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LcJ View Post
It is interesting to note, and you probably know this, Jesus never criticized Roman soldiers, Roman Law, or even those soldiers who put Him on the Cross. In fact He forgave them from the Cross saying, "Forgive them for they know not what they do." He also said the greatest faith He saw was in a Roman Centurion.

Just think people need to remember those things.
Just why did the early church excommunicate those that joined the military?
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by steelfaith1 View Post
Christian duty is to protect your loved ones and yourself...in times of war and in times of self defense. Remember Jesus told His disciples to take the sword....not for conversion, but for self defense. Jehovah witnesses are still wrong on many issues, thats why i view them as a cult.

I don't have a hotline to Christ. I read His Word and find His Truth. My thoughts on Noah have nothing at all to do with my Salvation. We, as Christians, can disagree on many things, but never on our Faith in His death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
1.Bible says the water was stored "in the deep"....under the land i presume.
2.Is it any harder to get animals on a boat than it is to turn water into wine? What takes the most of God's power is saving us from our sins. There is more power involved in that Act than the power required to create the entire universe. Yes, salvation is that hard and that important to God. Men and women have free will....animals operate by the law of instinct. Some people have suggested the animals onboard were young and in a dormant state. Its not till After the flood that animals and us are given the right to eat each other....humans excluded of course.
3.Size of the ark is in the Bible......Noah's Ark was three stories high (Genesis 6:16). Its total deck area was equivalent to the area of about 20 standard college basketball courts or 36 lawn tennis courts. The world had to wait until AD 1884 before the Ark's size was exceeded, when the Italian liner Eturia was built. http://www.creationtips.com/arksize.html
Thanks for the reply.

1. If the water was stored underground, how could it have fallen as rain?

2. I agree turning water into wine must take some doing. Regarding the Ark though, how did all the animals unique to their own continents, such as the Koala bear, manage inter-continental travel?

3. That sure is a big ship. Thanks for the link. I assume that all the animals in the world includes species that have since been 'discovered' as well as the ones yet to be 'discovered?' Pity Noah didn't keep a list, he would have saved a lot of scientists a lot of work

Thanks again

Dusty
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 01:59 PM
LcJ
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Originally Posted by Gerald View Post
Well, it appears that you don't know Christ after all. You just read the Bible and imagine that you know Christ as a result. Jefferson read the Bible too. Your opinion of the meaning of Christ's words is no more valid than Jefferson's were.
One verse sums up our faith, "For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I committed unto him against that day." And another describes what happend "For by faith are we saved through faith, not of works lest any man should boast."
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:00 PM
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LcJ View Post
Because I have never read a statement of Jefferson's faith and I have of Steelfaith. His general posting pattern indicates his believe pattern and as such could be considered his fruits.
So steelfaiths musings on christianity are more worthy of consideration because he is a Christian and he is a more Christian because of his musings.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:11 PM
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LcJ View Post
Because I have never read a statement of Jefferson's faith and I have of Steelfaith. His general posting pattern indicates his believe pattern and as such could be considered his fruits.
I thought you'd like one of Jeffersons's at least:
Quote:
Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822

Dear Sir,- I have received and read with thankfulness and pleasure your denunciation of the abuses of tobacco and wine. Yet, however sound in its principles, I expect it will be but a sermon to the wind. You will find it as difficult to inculcate these sanative precepts on the sensualities of the present day, as to convince an Athanasian that there is but one God. I wish success to both attempts, and am happy to learn from you that the latter, at least, is making progress, and the more rapidly in proportion as our Platonizing Christians make more stir and noise about it. The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.

1. That there is one only God, and he all perfect.
2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments.
3. That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion.

These are the great points on which he endeavored to reform the religion of the Jews. But compare with these the demoralizing dogmas of Calvin.

1. That there are three Gods.
2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, are nothing.
3 That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible the proposition, the more merit in its faith.
4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use.
5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save.

Now, which of these is the true and charitable Christian? He who believes and acts on the simple doctrines of Jesus? Or the impious dogmatists, as Athanasius and Calvin?...doctrine of one only God is reviving, and I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die an Unitarian...
http://www.sullivan-county.com/deism...rson_deist.htm
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:06 PM
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1. That there are three Gods.
2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, are nothing.
3 That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible the proposition, the more merit in its faith.
4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use.
5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save.
Those are strawmen of Calvin.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
Those are strawmen of Calvin.
Take it up with Jefferson
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:49 PM
LcJ
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If that was Jefferson's belief when he died, it was not Christian. But as to rather he was or not, is not of my judgement.
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Old Aug 26, 2010, 03:50 PM
LcJ
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Originally Posted by Gerald View Post
He and you claim to be "real" Christians but you are only so in your individual opinions. Neither of you have a hotline to God or Christ. Your claim to have the holy spirit working through you is just that - a claim. Could just as easily be demons, or imagination, or voices in your head like the ones that told that mother in Texas to drown her 5 children. She believed God told her to do it. Many others believe differently than you two and also believe that they are Christians. You can't all be right.
We each make our own decisions of Faith and of who we follow, as for me, "I have decided to follow Jesus." (title of an old hymn)
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