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Old May 29, 2013, 03:46 PM
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Another OlliW Gyromixer brushless conversion

Since there seems to be another growing demand for brushless conversions for guys into their 4 or 5 channel coaxials. I decided to try and do a step by step brushless conversion thread here at RCG. This thread is a departure from the earlier long Vtail thread many of us learned from that ended early last year. Mostly in part to the vastly better Ga250 based Gyromixer that OlliW contributed to our community for free. This new addition did away with vtail mixers and outdated poorly performing piezo gyros. Also ridding us of the need for additional brushless converters to finish the projects. Now, it is all in one little tiny dime sized Ga250 gyro. That we as hobbyists now can alter on our own with minimal expense. Again, thanks to the hundreds of hours Olli invested into the project. This is free software, the processes are free to any who want to use them. And no one anywhere is making a dime off any of it.

The whole endeavor is aimed at providing us with a viable memms gyro brushless system for our helis that doesn't break the bank. I myself and others have tried out the leading brushless conversion kits available on the market. Sadly finding out that most if not all of them are plagued with problems and don't work well, if at all. And customer support for these overpriced low quality kits are nearly nonexistent.

I and others have built these and had great success with them flying anything from micros to larger 500 sized coaxials. I even have one system being installed in my dual swash cp coaxial 500. The process and application are exactly the same from heli to heli, except for the rx, size of the esc's, and motors needed. Almost all the parts needed are cheaply sourced from Hobbyking. All you need to do any of this are basic soldering skills and some computer savvy. ( I need to point out that if I can do this, anyone can! )

The benefit? Your brushless converted Coax will have amazing tail control, run cooler and fly much longer. Admittedly few want to pour much money into a coaxial. And few coaxials are worth doing this to. But for those who do.

So if there is any real interest in this. I will begin a very detailed step by step guide for anyone who wants to build their own. If not. I will let this thread die and just continue building these on my own for my own use now.
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Old May 30, 2013, 04:38 PM
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Luvmyhelis, as you might recall I have one of these brushless GA20 gyromixer setups in an Eflite CX2 and one in an Esky Big Outdoor Lama. The performance difference between this type of system and the stock system is huge like night and day, I can't praise it enough. I do hope that some interest will be generated as I would certainly like to try my hand at building a gyromixer from scratch, as my current GA 250 gyromixers were acquired already built.
Although I fly some FP helis, I will maintain an interest in the coaxials as well since I do my flying by my house usually in some light wind which would be difficult for the stock coaxial to handle.
One other point I would like to make is that the stock 4 or 5 channel transmitters work fine with the GA250 gyromixer for (short range flying) because the gyromixer incorporates some of the functions of a better quality TX.
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Old May 30, 2013, 07:19 PM
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Yeah, I followed some of your work on those helis. Nice work and nice write ups that explain your process. I may rob some of that and include it.

The real issue is that no one had as of yet done a full pictoral step by step process from tearing into the gyro itself, soldering the harness, into plugging it into the laptop or computer in a detailed manner. I kind of wanted to get this so the common guy can follow the process of making one without too much confusion and accomplish this by themselves. The actual settings in the heli are pretty much pre programmed for the most part so really little needs to be altered from what I can see to make it fly afterwords. I didn't want to get too far outside the actual creation of it and simple application. Since OlliW provided a fairly comprehensive tuning guide in his original thread.
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Old May 31, 2013, 10:12 AM
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I will definitely be interested in following the same path - I've had enough success with what I was doing with my S033G to want more control for flying a camera rig.

"dual swash cp coaxial 500" ??
I'd like to know more on that, and anything about converting an fp Co-Ax to cp.

Every bit of reading I do keeps pointing me in the same direction - a properly set up CoAxial should be a far more stable camera platform then a Multi, and far more recoverable if it can be set up to be able to Auto-Rotate, as well as being capable of lifting higher loads in a form factor the fits in to a smaller road-case.
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Old May 31, 2013, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PiDicus Rex View Post
I will definitely be interested in following the same path - I've had enough success with what I was doing with my S033G to want more control for flying a camera rig.

"dual swash cp coaxial 500" ??
I'd like to know more on that, and anything about converting an fp Co-Ax to cp.

Every bit of reading I do keeps pointing me in the same direction - a properly set up CoAxial should be a far more stable camera platform then a Multi, and far more recoverable if it can be set up to be able to Auto-Rotate, as well as being capable of lifting higher loads in a form factor the fits in to a smaller road-case.
Yeah, agreed. However some of the new self stabilization fbl systems that are used on the CP helis such as the Sk720 create a docile very very stable platform.

The 500 coaxial dual swash project is an offshoot of the Skytec out of Germany.

Here is a pic of the actual head. I am still in the middle of having a machinist fab up some newer grip pins so I can run my larger 360mm to 420mm blades on it. I have since finished the actual folding landing gears in the scale body. But it will use one of these Ga250 OlliW gyromixers for the tail and an Sk360 to control the head.
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 06:10 AM
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I want to do a brushless cx2. This would be a big help to everyone.
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 08:14 AM
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Chap pointed to this thread in the Lama thread. I have gotten to the point where I use the My RCGroups button above to get away from the 3 channel "STUFF" the forum is full of now. I do NOT look for new threads like this one.
I think if I were getting into this all over again, I'd be tempted to do it on a larger scale than a CX2/Lama. There is more heli there giving more room for components. Then again, the gyromixer is one tiny chip instead of a chip and a gyro separately.
I've expressed this before, but maybe the hobbyist or experimenters out there are more adventurous than I am. Not everybody is big into experimental electronics and wants to jump in with both feet programming a chip. If the program was a once load and fly thing, maybe more would be interested. There are going to be variations in heli size (CX2/Lama vs Big Outdoor Lama/Walkera 400D) and components that will heave to be dealt with. Younger folks might be more adept to it than us old farts. I'm also more mechanically inclined than electrically so. I feel like a one-armed paper hanger in that I no longer have access to machine shop equipment and would have to rely on pre-manufactured parts too. The limitations many of us have may determine how deeply we get into a build = KISS.
All of that being said, I really love my brushless CX2 with the coaxmixer and external MEMS gyro. It has to be that much nicer to use the gyromixer. I'm sure this thread will be killer with Luv driving!
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 10:51 AM
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Ok guys, all I needed is at least one. This way we can actually compare notes during the build and this isn't just a one man show. And yes KJ, the gyromixer is actually that much better. One of my own CX3's equipped with one is now flying over in Bankok with one of the upper management guys in the U.S. embassy. He sent back the one that is identical to yours as he was still having flight issues with it. And I sent him back my own personal one. He just called me again at 11:30pm late last night, as I am tutoring him through half a dozen other CP related issues. And told me emphatically that the OW Gyromixer equipped CX is now all he is flying and its manners are perfect. Granted, that thing is modded to the hilt. But the gyro is the heart of it all. And having it so small, the controller part, really cleans up the wiring mass and simplifies things. Plus, yes. The actual loaded program nails about 9 out of 10 coaxials so no further tuning is even needed.

The soldering and prep work are actually not that bad at all. The thing that daunts most is the actual burning of the chip itself. So I am painstakingly going to go through a no brainer pic by pic step by step process that anyone can do. In speak to me I am blonde language. I find most guys don't care about understanding all the electronics programming info that I have talked to since those first OlliW gyromixer builds. In fact, here is where KJ is correct. They simply want an easier way to make it all work with the least amount of effort.

In the earlier OlliW sponsored build thread, there were numerous occasions where things I was supposed to know were simply assumed. Things I should have known weren't. And other things hadn't been thoroughly laid out yet. So that thread is kind of cluttered here and there with confusion on both sides. Which to the casual observer, makes that look ten times harder and more confusing than it really should have been. And until the day these OlliW gyromixers are available as a complete unit whenever someone wants one. Which may never be the case for several reasons. We have to build our own.
So, tomorrow we start.
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 11:33 AM
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Luv, quick question. Approx. how much money would the build cost? Or would that depend on the size heli? Thanks.

Mike.
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 02:20 PM
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Luv, quick question. Approx. how much money would the build cost? Or would that depend on the size heli? Thanks.

Mike.
The entire brushless changeover? Or just building the gyromixer?
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 09:53 PM
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The entire brushless changeover? Or just building the gyromixer?
Entire BL change over. Just talked with him and he has a BOL platform.
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Old Jun 02, 2013, 10:00 PM
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I'm interested as well.
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Old Jun 03, 2013, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Chap1012 View Post
Entire BL change over. Just talked with him and he has a BOL platform.

Ok, either way this gyromixer is at the heart of it all. Esc's are roughly identical to set up as well as the motors in theory. The hard part is actually not so hard anymore since OlliW wrote his new AvrBurn tool. Just tonight I went back through all the nightmarish steps I had to take doing my first one. I had forgotten that OlliW had outdated all that stuff. And the actual soldering of the leads and identifying the pins on the board and usasp adapter were pretty simple.

I did more research after my kids left from the weekend, and hit the spot where he launched his newer program that I hadn't used yet. His newer tool is just click, chip now ready. Click, chip now erased, Click, chip now fully programmed and ready for use. Pull the solder leads and put it back together! Really it is now that simple! It actually preloads his software and steps you through hitting three consecutive buttons. Wowzer, that was tough.

Here is the post where OlliW supplied the new software as a zip file that can be downloaded at the bottom of post # 867. This runs the Usasb adapter to fully program the basic software into the gyro.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post21029292

Here again at Rcg in post #10 are other software programs we need to continue with later. This will allow you to actually link your computer directly to the finished Gyromixer and set its running parameters to your own liking while installed in your actual running helis. Things such as gain and such. The links you need to copy and download are in the blue.

And depending on which usasb adapter you do get some other versions are listed in his own German based blog. Just use Google and have the software do a language translation. It is actually pretty good! Olli also did a pic by pic physical wiring and solder guide for the gyromixer when you scroll down. I will also do another one here just to solidify what exactly needs to be done and how.
http://translate.google.com/translat...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8


I need to apologize to Olli here as he personally asked me to test it out when he posted it, but I was already moving into another direction testing new 6s and 12s motors for Scorpion. And this gyromixer project sat gathering cobwebs for a while.

My only issue now is outdated Usbasp software so my cheap HK link wont set my sck pin. Olli may step in and tell me to ignore it? Who knows. For some reason my ancient Windows Vista equipped laptop keeps ignoring the new software.... This may give me reason to upgrade.

Guys forget totally about buying any complex links such as the Sparkfun that I used earlier. Just either find this one at HK when they come back in stock or buy another one on Ebay for less than $5.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...rSearch=usbasp

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USBASP-USBIS...item2a286c905b

This adapter plugs into the side of your computer. Your computer after downloading the usasp software identifies the new adapter and automatically routes its new commands through it to the gyro through six little wires that we are going to solder onto its board.

In my pics I already soldered the rest of the leads in place. But, the programming doesn't need them in place yet. You can literally strip all the leads of the GA250 gyro and just solder these 6 leads into the pin locations and get er done.

The hardest part is gently prying off the original pin connector off the GA250 gyro while heating the leads with a decent soldering iron. The last thing you want to do is pull the copper leads off the board itself. I used a simple pic and gently worked the white pin connector off as I rocked it back and forth when the solder got hot across all the leads. One way is to push down on them with the iron while pulling up with the pic. Just be gentle here! No rush.

Next, file down the edges of the GA250 so they don't cut through the new servo lead wires we are going to put back in place.

This brings up the other part of the things from HK you may need. Normal servo leads will work. But the thickness of the wire can be an issue as the thicker wire is more difficult to seat in place on the small pin pads and can pull those pads off the board. I know! I have done it.

Pick up this super thin wire package of servo leads.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...bag_.htmlCheap and quite effective, we aren't moving much amperage here, just milli amps.

This servo pin kit, so we have pins to insert for the six leads coming out of the Usasb chord end. These will be made into the six leads that solder onto the actual Gyro board.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...airs_set_.html

It also wouldn't be a bad idea for those that don't have any to pick up the corresponding colored shrink wrap. It helps keep the colors on the leads correct so you know what goes where later. The 4mm size will be fine. Red, blue, and yellow. Plus one black in 5mm.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...rink_Tube.html

This really is everything you will need to create your own OlliW gyromixer outside of your own soldering skills.

Next post, the assembly begins!
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Old Jun 03, 2013, 06:21 AM
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I guess because I was only interested in the coaxmixer I thought the gyromixer did NOT use an external gyro. I thought the gyro function was programmed into the chip.
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Old Jun 03, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
I guess because I was only interested in the coaxmixer I thought the gyromixer did NOT use an external gyro. I thought the gyro function was programmed into the chip.
No matter which way we go. We still need an external gyro. In this case the gyro itself acts both as the gyro, brushless converter, and coax mixer all in one. So it is doing the job the Vtail mixer used to do, along with its own duties.

KJ, yours still uses a custom Vtail mixer so you can actually program the gain values in your TX to externally control the GA250 gyro. (Or any other gyro you want. At the time we talked about doing the OlliW project on yours. But the costs included the program box which was needed at the time. That alone raised the build costs by as much as $30 or more.

The only other route available is to use the existing controller that came with your own heli. And add a system such as the $100 version Wowhobbies sells. Pretty much pure garbage. So no matter what we do. Any other conversion including a vtail brushless system. Must use an external gyro. Nothing we do will use the inferior chip provided inside the stock control box. Those gyros suck. As do the processors.

Now OlliW has built a computer program that uses a simple mini usb to usb chord. And a Sparkfun adapter that we are going to add some program leads into. And you set alternate gain values and such on your finished gyromixer VIA the laptop. But it uses the yellow servo lead coming out of the gyromixer as its new link instead of all the complex wiring we just did.

That will be step #3 in the how to do list.
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