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Old Feb 25, 2013, 07:32 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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What BEC are you running? I wouldn't think the BEC should be having a problem with 6S. Does voltage fluctuate on the ground, and can you verify with a voltmeter? I ran the Castle BEC Pro on my 600 for a while on 10S with no issue. I've since switched it to run on 5S, and it's been fine. I was talking with Craig at CC's tech support the other day and he told me that he's been running a BEC Pro off of 6S for several years on his 700. The argument for running less voltage to the BEC is that it can handle more current the less input voltage it has to deal with. Even still, 6S shouldn't be a big deal.

I don't think you can run a redundant BEC, as I'm pretty sure that 2 BECs don't like to run in parallel, but I'm not sure to explain why.

I'm still curious to know if you are seeing a measurement error somehow on the telemetry's part, or if voltage is really jumping around. I would think that the current draw from your servos is many times what that telemetry module could draw.

On a slight tangent, do you know about the Scorpion battery backup? http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo..._Backup_Guard/

Rafa


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Speaking of telemetry. My Spektrum and X5 have given me a little scare recently. At some point, a few flights back. I decided i wanted to venture into checking out the data logging feature of my Spek DX8. It's really cool. It logs all the voltage, RX voltage, you know, whatever you have hooked to the telemetry module and working. The only real problem is that Spektrum does not provide any real way to read the file on a PC or Android device. I think there is a app for the iphone, and i think they even have some kind of device that works with the iphone now and can talk directly with the telemetry unit. I think it's called STi. Anyway, There are some 3rd party apps and even a VBA script or whatever they are called, for Excell. I don't know how to use Excell, let alone the scripting. So the 3rd party app worked okay for me. But something i noticed right away was that the RX voltage was fluctuating quite a bit, and it was dropping out WAY too low. One log recorded drops as low as 3.6V occasionally and 3.8V a fair bit more commonly. I turned on my RX voltage alarms and notice that the alarm was going off for a split second only half of the time. So the fluctuation wave form graph is all over the place, but the alarm only sounded on some of the longer timed drop outs. Very scary, since this is dangerously close to brown out. I thought i was having a serious issue here with my BEC or ESC. I turned off the telemetry's data logging and left the telemetry alarms on for low voltage. As it turns out, the telemetry device it's self is causing the spikes in voltage while the data logging is active. Radio systems are not exactly my field of expertise, but i have worked around all kinds of broadcast and other types of radio. If i were to guess, the TM1000 telemetry module. Being a transmitter and receiver in one. I think the telemetry module is loosing signal with the TX and as a result drawing more power to boost the transmit signal so it can get a proper ping back from the TX. I don't know, but i imagine the way that it works is the TX sends a signal or "ping" to the RX, the RX recognizes the "ping" and then sends the data back. This repeats it's self several times in a second, i'm sure. So either that is the case or simply because data logging is turned on, the module is communicating more frequently. Which ever the case. It seems to safely use the DX8 data logging feature with my current setup. I think it would be safest to use a secondary BEC for RX power, or even maybe a redundant BEC and 2S battery. My theory is that the BEC is having a hard time keeping the 25.2V down to 6V during all this extra draw from the telemetry + the servos. If anyone has any additional theories i would like to hear them. But for the moment i will just leave data logging turned off and keep an eye on my RX voltage for abnormal spikes. I assume this is what some of the "issues" with brown outs or lock outs were related to, about two years ago when some people were reporting problems like this with the DX8. I have not looked into it much.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 04:23 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,134 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
What BEC are you running? I wouldn't think the BEC should be having a problem with 6S. Does voltage fluctuate on the ground, and can you verify with a voltmeter? I ran the Castle BEC Pro on my 600 for a while on 10S with no issue. I've since switched it to run on 5S, and it's been fine. I was talking with Craig at CC's tech support the other day and he told me that he's been running a BEC Pro off of 6S for several years on his 700. The argument for running less voltage to the BEC is that it can handle more current the less input voltage it has to deal with. Even still, 6S shouldn't be a big deal.

I don't think you can run a redundant BEC, as I'm pretty sure that 2 BECs don't like to run in parallel, but I'm not sure to explain why.

I'm still curious to know if you are seeing a measurement error somehow on the telemetry's part, or if voltage is really jumping around. I would think that the current draw from your servos is many times what that telemetry module could draw.

On a slight tangent, do you know about the Scorpion battery backup? http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo..._Backup_Guard/

Rafa
I have not checked it on the bench with a meter yet. I am using the stock ESC's BEC. So it's a Hobbywing UBEC built into the 100A ESC i'm sure. I did do tests in the air and pitch pumped the hell out of it and never saw a drop below 4.2v or so and that took A LOT to get down to. The low voltage spikes when the telemetry data logging function was running did not happen at any specific time. In fact the thing i noticed most was i could have just been doing 5 rolling flips in a row and nothing would happen. Then i would level out and hover nice and calm and the RX voltage alarm would go off. But it was much more random then i am explaining right now, thats just an example. It was completely random.

Yes, i do know about the backup guard. It's pretty interesting. I had previously thought that it was just a 2S lipo and a BEC. It is actually exactly that, but it does not output voltage all the time. It only outputs 5V when it senses that the voltage drops out. Which is pretty cool. I've been meaning to get one, but it actually doesn't solve this particular problem. It would give me protection from a brown out if it happened. But if my RX voltage is actually fluctuating, it will affect the performance of my servos during the drop outs too. I should probably hit google. Someone else probably has had this problem before.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:32 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
The general consensus at our field is not to run an esc's BEC on anything larger than a 450. The guys at my field would recommend the CC BEC Pro.

Assuming that your voltage is really fluctuating, the backup would help, albeit as only a bandaid. If voltage falls below 5V, it switches on. If voltage goes above 5V, it switches off. I've been meaning to order a few of those.

Rafa

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I have not checked it on the bench with a meter yet. I am using the stock ESC's BEC. So it's a Hobbywing UBEC built into the 100A ESC i'm sure. I did do tests in the air and pitch pumped the hell out of it and never saw a drop below 4.2v or so and that took A LOT to get down to. The low voltage spikes when the telemetry data logging function was running did not happen at any specific time. In fact the thing i noticed most was i could have just been doing 5 rolling flips in a row and nothing would happen. Then i would level out and hover nice and calm and the RX voltage alarm would go off. But it was much more random then i am explaining right now, thats just an example. It was completely random.

Yes, i do know about the backup guard. It's pretty interesting. I had previously thought that it was just a 2S lipo and a BEC. It is actually exactly that, but it does not output voltage all the time. It only outputs 5V when it senses that the voltage drops out. Which is pretty cool. I've been meaning to get one, but it actually doesn't solve this particular problem. It would give me protection from a brown out if it happened. But if my RX voltage is actually fluctuating, it will affect the performance of my servos during the drop outs too. I should probably hit google. Someone else probably has had this problem before.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 12:35 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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[QUOTE=IntegrityHndywrk;24254839]/QUOTE]

BTW, it was recently announced that Team Gaui would be attending our local fun fly coming up the beginning of April. You should road trip to Texas for the event. http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=480343

Rafa
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 02:49 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
The general consensus at our field is not to run an esc's BEC on anything larger than a 450. The guys at my field would recommend the CC BEC Pro.

Assuming that your voltage is really fluctuating, the backup would help, albeit as only a bandaid. If voltage falls below 5V, it switches on. If voltage goes above 5V, it switches off. I've been meaning to order a few of those.

Rafa
If it picks up the slack below 5V thats great, but i was under the impression that it only kicks on when the voltage drops out all together. I'm still unclear on this even after going today and watching some youtube videos on it. It seems you might be right but i can't find it set in stone anywhere.

The texas thing is not in my budget, unfortunately. Hotels etc. It's just too much. If it were in actual driving distance, like GA, SC, NC or something like that. I would probably consider it. I also don't have my AMA right now because it's pointless for me, other than for this specific reason. It's just an added expense that has little benefit at the moment since i always fly at field that are open tax payer properties. AMA don't cover me there. Would love to come over though, would be fun. Maybe when i'm flying a X7
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 03:31 PM
Need More PURPLE !!
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United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Aug 2012
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Kdean: Have you completed your 2nd 600 heli yet ??

If so lets see the pic's Bro.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:03 PM
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United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Chopper Jack,

If you are reading this, check your pm box.
PM sent
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 08:04 PM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
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Here is the mess i have sitting in front of me. The parts im waiting for should be here tomorrow. I have a long list of things to do, but one of them should be doing test flights on sunday.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 08:35 PM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
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Here is a basic run down of whats left to do.

600cf 12s beastx fbl conversion - this one is really just waiting for the umbrella gear and the fbl head. Both will be here tomorrow so i can get that done in one sitting. Once everything is in place its just a matter of geting it setup for test flights.

600esp (scale rig) - this will be flybarred for a while and im going to tame it down to go into chopper jacks fuse. It looks like i'll be swapping the scorpion motor back to the typhoon, only because i dont have a 10-12t pinion that fits the 6mm shaft. The typhoon was very smooth and good to my batteries. I will eventualy go back to the scorpion, once i get the right pinion. Im also waiting on two servos, and the screws for the skids. Then i can remove the rx from my 500 cmt for sale, and start to get things setup.

They will have to share the only pair of 600mm main blades that i have, but its soon time to put in an order for blades and batteries.

I'll post/blog in more detail later. I need to figure out how to load more than one pic at a time from my iphone...
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 09:29 PM
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United States, AZ, Chandler
Joined Mar 2012
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Im starting on my way out of walk-era to with my build of a VWINRC 550. Going to stay with the 2801pro for now and going with a BeastX on this heli. Some pic of what i have going right now.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 10:18 PM
Need More PURPLE !!
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United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Here is the mess i have sitting in front of me. The parts im waiting for should be here tomorrow. I have a long list of things to do, but one of them should be doing test flights on sunday.
Getting there..
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 09:04 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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I can't remember if i posted about my 4f200 mods in this thread or the vclone thread, so i'm posting this in both. This is an update on the flight capability and mods put into my 4f200. Also the latest video of the X5.



4F200C - Two Blade Tail Test Flight #5 (3 min 59 sec)




4F200C Two Blade Tail Test Flight #6 (3 min 49 sec)




4F200C - Two Blade Tail Test Flight #7 - CRASH! (3 min 13 sec)




Gaui X5 - Flight 241 - A few Tick tocks (6 min 12 sec)
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 03:10 AM
BahamaHeli
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The Bahamas
Joined Dec 2010
3,699 Posts
Inspired by chopper J letting me know the fuse is on the way, i took some extra time getting the 600esp ready. There were some challenges but i was able to get a nice clean install of all the electronics. I dont know why i went through all the trouble of concealing wires cause its all gunna be tucked inside the fuselage anyway. I just have to install the umbrella gear and tt in the 600cf and then set them both up. The worst of it is done now. Test flights to come soon.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 08:07 AM
Moving Parts
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United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
Inspired by chopper J letting me know the fuse is on the way, i took some extra time getting the 600esp ready. There were some challenges but i was able to get a nice clean install of all the electronics. I don't know why i went through all the trouble of concealing wires cause its all gunna be tucked inside the fuselage anyway. I just have to install the umbrella gear and tt in the 600cf and then set them both up. The worst of it is done now. Test flights to come soon.
Good luck with the fuselage! The fuse is wrapped in the original plastic and packed in the original box. I added lots of packing paper to make it as loading dock friendly (UPS Ground) as possible. The box is inside a double layer of double corrugated cardboard. I used a roll and a half of clear packing tape and a half roll of stranded packing tape. I tossed it around quite a bit getting it ready to go and no rattles.

The package is very sturdy so hopefully, no damage. I hope you have fun with it and it enhances your exhibition flying. I'm looking forward to reading about your build. I think you will find that TT tail a good choice for the fuselage so you just unplug it and plug it back in so to speak.

http://www.scaleflying.com/MD500D-Fi...ize_p_754.html
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 11:04 AM
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Joined Jun 2011
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Every since i got into flying helicopters i've been wanting to put one in a fuse. Maybe this summer i'll make that a project.... We'll see.

Looking forward to hearing about your build Big K!!
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