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Old Sep 16, 2014, 02:18 PM
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What is "The big scale glider"?

Some photos from meeting of big scale models on our flying field at the southern border of Prague held 6. - 7. 9.2014. These gliders are in the scale 1:2. http://kocour111.rajce.idnes.cz/Lipe.../#P9060017.jpg http://kocour111.rajce.idnes.cz/Lipe.../#P9060018.jpg http://kocour111.rajce.idnes.cz/Lipe.../#P9060019.jpg http://kocour111.rajce.idnes.cz/Lipe.../#P9060020.jpg http://kocour111.rajce.idnes.cz/Lipe.../#P9060021.jpg http://kocour111.rajce.idnes.cz/Lipe.../#P9060023.jpg
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Old Sep 16, 2014, 11:45 PM
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According to the video, it's a Zlin 125 Šohaj:

Giant scale glider Z-125 Šohaj (4 min 1 sec)
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Old Sep 24, 2014, 11:32 AM
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When a model is really a minature

Wow, my glider is BIGGER THAN YOURS syndrome on display. Seems like the builder really desires to have a full scale glider and with a little more effort could have built one. Now if his objective is to validate his building skills before attempting a full scale one that's fine. Yet to associate this with what most folks consider a model is a real stretch. Of course this is only my thoughts on this and I wonder how others see it? Ed
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Old Sep 24, 2014, 01:13 PM
Vintage wood is the best!
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Originally Posted by Geek1945 View Post
Wow, my glider is BIGGER THAN YOURS syndrome on display. Seems like the builder really desires to have a full scale glider and with a little more effort could have built one. Now if his objective is to validate his building skills before attempting a full scale one that's fine. Yet to associate this with what most folks consider a model is a real stretch. Of course this is only my thoughts on this and I wonder how others see it? Ed
A little bit of model envy there????
How is a 50% model a "real stretch" at what a model is? Is it controlled by a radio? Yes.......is it a smaller version of a full size airplane? Yes......so by any stretch it meets the smell test as a model.
I fly everthing from a Micro Radian......super fun.......to a 50% Hemple Ka-6......super fun.......the only difference between the two types of fun......is cost.
I'm currently working on two 40% ..and...two 33% sailplanes......I know......too many projects at one time.......it's a sickness!.........and am doing drawings for another 50% airframe.......do I want to build a full size? Nope......I have no desire to do that.......I like models......I like big models........so I'll continue to build and fly big models for as long as I can. I applaud these guys for the achievements they've made in building models of this size because I know first hand what it takes to produce a airframe at these scales.
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Old Sep 26, 2014, 05:40 PM
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Hello

The biggest gliders you will find by Patrick Trauffer, Markus Frey and Rolf Ritter.

http://www.flyhard.ch/bauberichte/austria-2009-05.html

http://www.flyhard.ch/bauberichte/ka-6-cr-2010-01.html

http://www.flyhard.ch/bauberichte/lo-100-2006-apr.html

Greets Christian
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Old Sep 28, 2014, 03:31 PM
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No envy at all I've made too many trips around the sun for that. What concerns me is what happens if one of these large flying models is involved in an accident. Then makes the TV news, then some irate citizen decides to complain to the FAA. Then the FAA decides these large RC models present a clear & present danger flying hazard if control is lost, like with manned aircraft when control is lost. Then FAA agrees the size of RC aircraft falls under their rule-making authority. More rules to enforce = more staffing = more supervisors = more budget $$ = to use in protect citizens from uncontrolled flying objects in the peoples airspace. Then FAA advises the AMA of proposed rule-making to limit size and weight of these "Toys" to limit possible future damages and injuries which has grown out of control without limits. Or like in EU countries which require a documented airframe inspection by a certified inspector while limiting flight to a few designated areas and flight altitudes. Areas which require those model builders/operators to travel far outside the city limits and possibly charge a fee to fly there. About now you might think " no way" but as a retired FAA employee I think "way" since similar things have happen before. Even worse all it takes to is just one careless incident to condemn all large scale fliers. Yes AMA has great accident coverage yet, that won't be enough to stop a 'concerned citizen' from filing a complaint to start the regulatory gears turning. Even worse someone on the web just might post it to YouTube or Twitter then the manure really hits the fan!

Recall RC airplanes aren't alone either this also applies to scale boats and cars.

Sitting in my workshop are 3 jet skis 60, 70, & 135HP which were going to be used in a future ULM or LSA airplane. That was until my personal airworthiness inspector insisted on a demonstration of my aeronautical engineering abilities first. So here I'm build an RC glider to satisfy her requirement. Why an RC model, simple there are many more RC airplane builders than EAA one's and more aeronautical knowledge is available too. Since my intended full scale design is a motor glider I'm working on the glider part first! Besides it appears the EU countries full scale gliders are plentiful yet, I haven't seen one flying in the US my entire 68 years.

Now personally I have a 4 meter glider on my bucket list, not too big not too small. Large enough to penetrate an average NTX 15 mph wind without causing a friction fire in my wallet. Small enough to carry without a trailer plus manageable by myself since my CFO spouse doesn't do aircraft ground support work she's retired too. I do need a hi-start, do you think one of our hay burner horses might do after tying the towline on and poking them with a cattle prod?

Agreed you prefer larger models which is fine just be aware of the responsibilities involved and build in redundancy in the event of a failure. Like one pilot put it, nothing on an aircraft is non-essential and walking or swimming isn't an option either. So to with an out of control RC glider which might just continue soaring for miles.
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Old Sep 28, 2014, 03:47 PM
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Damn dude........you might as well just never get out of bed in the morning......I'll keep getting up and keep on building large models......good luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek1945 View Post
No envy at all I've made too many trips around the sun for that. What concerns me is what happens if one of these large flying models is involved in an accident. Then makes the TV news, then some irate citizen decides to complain to the FAA. Then the FAA decides these large RC models present a clear & present danger flying hazard if control is lost, like with manned aircraft when control is lost. Then FAA agrees the size of RC aircraft falls under their rule-making authority. More rules to enforce = more staffing = more supervisors = more budget $$ = to use in protect citizens from uncontrolled flying objects in the peoples airspace. Then FAA advises the AMA of proposed rule-making to limit size and weight of these "Toys" to limit possible future damages and injuries which has grown out of control without limits. Or like in EU countries which require a documented airframe inspection by a certified inspector while limiting flight to a few designated areas and flight altitudes. Areas which require those model builders/operators to travel far outside the city limits and possibly charge a fee to fly there. About now you might think " no way" but as a retired FAA employee I think "way" since similar things have happen before. Even worse all it takes to is just one careless incident to condemn all large scale fliers. Yes AMA has great accident coverage yet, that won't be enough to stop a 'concerned citizen' from filing a complaint to start the regulatory gears turning. Even worse someone on the web just might post it to YouTube or Twitter then the manure really hits the fan!

Recall RC airplanes aren't alone either this also applies to scale boats and cars.

Sitting in my workshop are 3 jet skis 60, 70, & 135HP which were going to be used in a future ULM or LSA airplane. That was until my personal airworthiness inspector insisted on a demonstration of my aeronautical engineering abilities first. So here I'm build an RC glider to satisfy her requirement. Why an RC model, simple there are many more RC airplane builders than EAA one's and more aeronautical knowledge is available too. Since my intended full scale design is a motor glider I'm working on the glider part first! Besides it appears the EU countries full scale gliders are plentiful yet, I haven't seen one flying in the US my entire 68 years.

Now personally I have a 4 meter glider on my bucket list, not too big not too small. Large enough to penetrate an average NTX 15 mph wind without causing a friction fire in my wallet. Small enough to carry without a trailer plus manageable by myself since my CFO spouse doesn't do aircraft ground support work she's retired too. I do need a hi-start, do you think one of our hay burner horses might do after tying the towline on and poking them with a cattle prod?

Agreed you prefer larger models which is fine just be aware of the responsibilities involved and build in redundancy in the event of a failure. Like one pilot put it, nothing on an aircraft is non-essential and walking or swimming isn't an option either. So to with an out of control RC glider which might just continue soaring for miles.
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Old Sep 28, 2014, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek1945 View Post
No envy at all I've made too many trips around the sun for that. What concerns me is what happens if one of these large flying models is involved in an accident. Then makes the TV news, then some irate citizen decides to complain to the FAA. Then the FAA decides these large RC models present a clear & present danger flying hazard if control is lost, like with manned aircraft when control is lost. Then FAA agrees the size of RC aircraft falls under their rule-making authority. More rules to enforce = more staffing = more supervisors = more budget $$ = to use in protect citizens from uncontrolled flying objects in the peoples airspace. Then FAA advises the AMA of proposed rule-making to limit size and weight of these "Toys" to limit possible future damages and injuries which has grown out of control without limits. Or like in EU countries which require a documented airframe inspection by a certified inspector while limiting flight to a few designated areas and flight altitudes. Areas which require those model builders/operators to travel far outside the city limits and possibly charge a fee to fly there. About now you might think " no way" but as a retired FAA employee I think "way" since similar things have happen before. Even worse all it takes to is just one careless incident to condemn all large scale fliers. Yes AMA has great accident coverage yet, that won't be enough to stop a 'concerned citizen' from filing a complaint to start the regulatory gears turning. Even worse someone on the web just might post it to YouTube or Twitter then the manure really hits the fan!

Recall RC airplanes aren't alone either this also applies to scale boats and cars.

Sitting in my workshop are 3 jet skis 60, 70, & 135HP which were going to be used in a future ULM or LSA airplane. That was until my personal airworthiness inspector insisted on a demonstration of my aeronautical engineering abilities first. So here I'm build an RC glider to satisfy her requirement. Why an RC model, simple there are many more RC airplane builders than EAA one's and more aeronautical knowledge is available too. Since my intended full scale design is a motor glider I'm working on the glider part first! Besides it appears the EU countries full scale gliders are plentiful yet, I haven't seen one flying in the US my entire 68 years.

Now personally I have a 4 meter glider on my bucket list, not too big not too small. Large enough to penetrate an average NTX 15 mph wind without causing a friction fire in my wallet. Small enough to carry without a trailer plus manageable by myself since my CFO spouse doesn't do aircraft ground support work she's retired too. I do need a hi-start, do you think one of our hay burner horses might do after tying the towline on and poking them with a cattle prod?

Agreed you prefer larger models which is fine just be aware of the responsibilities involved and build in redundancy in the event of a failure. Like one pilot put it, nothing on an aircraft is non-essential and walking or swimming isn't an option either. So to with an out of control RC glider which might just continue soaring for miles.
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Old Oct 04, 2014, 10:21 PM
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What I'm trying to communicate is each model builder regardless of water, surface, or air needs to insure his/her model has the lowest failure mode possible. Designing a building any model requires a lot of planning and design to accomplish this. This might be the very reason besides cost analysis why so many ARF RTF i.e. being sold. Excluding some giant models most are <100 inches plus are relative light and are considered TOYS by the FAA. Once 1/2, 1/3 scales are built you are getting to designs/sizes which the FAA may consider remotely piloted aircraft. This is a different definition than toys which includes up to 1:1 scale.

My objective here is not to discourage builders of large scale, just to alert them to be aware of the fact the FAA is a REACTIVE AGENCY which the majority (all) of modelers don't want involved in their hobby. The best way to keep a lion sleeping is step quietly so consider spending the extra time and expense when building large scale. Besides always consider your operating area presents minimal exposure for damage to others.

Finally remember governmental agencies are controlled by politicians, if you figure out how they think you're a better man than I and rules made are very difficult to repeal! Ed
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Old Oct 05, 2014, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek1945 View Post
What I'm trying to communicate is each model builder regardless of water, surface, or air needs to insure his/her model has the lowest failure mode possible. Designing a building any model requires a lot of planning and design to accomplish this. This might be the very reason besides cost analysis why so many ARF RTF i.e. being sold. Excluding some giant models most are <100 inches plus are relative light and are considered TOYS by the FAA. Once 1/2, 1/3 scales are built you are getting to designs/sizes which the FAA may consider remotely piloted aircraft. This is a different definition than toys which includes up to 1:1 scale.

My objective here is not to discourage builders of large scale, just to alert them to be aware of the fact the FAA is a REACTIVE AGENCY which the majority (all) of modelers don't want involved in their hobby. The best way to keep a lion sleeping is step quietly so consider spending the extra time and expense when building large scale. Besides always consider your operating area presents minimal exposure for damage to others.
Finally remember governmental agencies are controlled by politicians, if you figure out how they think you're a better man than I and rules made are very difficult to repeal! Ed
These gliders (scale 1:2 are built by Mr. Stejskal and his friends. As I know, Mr. Stejskal is building big scale gliders since 1980 (when I saw his scale glider "Krajanek" - winspan 5 m). In Czech Republic pilots of models over 20 kg have to get special licence for these models, from UCL (Office for Civil Aircraft). Exams for this licence consists of theoretical and practical parts, including simple static calculation of a model. As I know , all modellers flying on meetings of big scale model have this license (it is possible to read a list of licences on pages of UCL). But many gliders in scale 1:2 do not exceed weight 20 kg. Rules for flying of big models are more strict as in Germany (there is a limit 25 kg).
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Last edited by adamcz; Oct 05, 2014 at 02:37 AM. Reason: Mistakes in text.
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Old Oct 05, 2014, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek1945 View Post
What I'm trying to communicate is each model builder regardless of water, surface, or air needs to insure his/her model has the lowest failure mode possible. Designing a building any model requires a lot of planning and design to accomplish this. This might be the very reason besides cost analysis why so many ARF RTF i.e. being sold. Excluding some giant models most are <100 inches plus are relative light and are considered TOYS by the FAA. Once 1/2, 1/3 scales are built you are getting to designs/sizes which the FAA may consider remotely piloted aircraft. This is a different definition than toys which includes up to 1:1 scale.

My objective here is not to discourage builders of large scale, just to alert them to be aware of the fact the FAA is a REACTIVE AGENCY which the majority (all) of modelers don't want involved in their hobby. The best way to keep a lion sleeping is step quietly so consider spending the extra time and expense when building large scale. Besides always consider your operating area presents minimal exposure for damage to others.

Finally remember governmental agencies are controlled by politicians, if you figure out how they think you're a better man than I and rules made are very difficult to repeal! Ed
Situation of rules of flying with big models is several years old, some proposals were to ban it, but the solutiion is acceptable for modellers. Number of modellers flying this models is limited. Rules for public exhibition of these models are very strict. Our club organized public exhibitions of big models since 1999 on our flying field an they were permitted by local authorities and an Office for Civil Aircraft too. Several modellers from our country (Mr. Stejskal too) took part in appearances in France (La Ferte), Germany (Lehrte) and others. In La Ferte e.g. all models were controlled by comiisioners for civil aircraft and many model model were not allowed to fly on this meeting. But these models are not my cup of tea, I prefer scale gkiders with a wingspan 2,5 - 4 m. They are acceptable for our flat and our car too.
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Old Oct 09, 2014, 04:49 PM
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Now this is an interesting topic and as a builder designer of a few "Giant" scale models under my belt I can tell you that over this side of the pond at least and from what research I have done overseas that building and operating these big birds is no mean feat and to imply that the operators would be taking unnecessary risk is nothing short of insulting.
I have witnessed substantially riskier situations with smaller models than with the giants flying today and if something were to go pear shaped I would rather it be a big one than a little one ..... at least everyone will be watching the big one and will know precisely where it is if something should go wrong!..... unlike your little planes " At the end of the day its simple. .... BIGGER FLIES BETTER!!"
(poorly quoted from rc aerotowing)
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