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Old Aug 29, 2012, 05:15 PM
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Progress

Well, my detractors were right, I'm too dumb to build a boiler. After the third attempt, more or less, I gave up. Faced with the prospect of a complete redesign and more tedious welding I reverted to my original plan of building a flash steam generator. Initially I shied away from the idea because I distrusted my ability to construct a water pump armed with only my trusty drill press, etc. as with the engine.
However . . . back to the wall, or some such, I persevered and built the pictured device. It works, though it hasn't been tested under pressure. Initially tested in the pictured wooden test stand, and driven by an electric drill, it produced too much volume. I don't know what RPM the drill was turning, but decided to gear the pump down to 6 : 1 on the engine. The pump has a 3/8" bore and is presently working at a 1/2" stroke. That's a large pump according to my research, but then this is a large displacement engine. Running now with the engine it still puts out a lot of volume, but we'll see . . .
Now to see if I'm smart enough to build the rest of a flash steam system.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 11:28 PM
Just call me "Mo"
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Hey--great to see you are still working with your fine engine--Sorry to hear the boiler was giving you a hard time.....The pump looks fine !
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Could you give more details on both your engine and your boiler attempts? From the looks of the engine and the pump you should be able to do a boiler. Ask questions and we can talk you through it. I have lots of experience with failed boiler and a few that worked.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 10:18 AM
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Portland OR USA
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Perhaps I'll see you at the GEARS show next month. I'm not showing the engine - not enough progress.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 10:30 AM
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Portland OR USA
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Boiler

Thanks Gerald. Now that I think I've managed a pump I'm really excited about the flash steam system. As I said, I would have preferred to go that route initially anyway.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Portland OR USA
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Uh Gerald, Here's a link to a video I did awhile back of the engine.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1296172
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:24 AM
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Uh Gerald, Here's a link to a video I did awhile back of the engine.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1296172
Hi Hyes,
I really like your engine, may I ask a few questions.


1-- what sort of steam pressures do you propose to use?

2-- What type of steam generator are you going to make and how are you going to fire it.?

3--What is your engine 's cylinder head made of ?

4-- What are your pistons made of ?

I have quite a bit of experience in running a flash steam plant so if I can be of any assistance please ask.

Here is a link to some pics that I posted some time ago of my flash steam plant which is a copy of the R.Kirtley's world record breaking A/S class hydro s shown on the Vidio.

Mine isn't designed to go as fast as his but last recorded speed of mine was 45 mph. and is R/C controlled for steering and stopping.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...er+tether+boat

George.
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 04:10 PM
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Portland OR USA
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Specs

Hi George,

I'm operating in a different league I'm afraid. I've built everything without castings and utilizing only a drill press and hand tools. I'll take all the pressure I can get, but will be using only a single burner built for the original boiler idea.
The engine heads are aluminum as are the pistons. The cylinder blocks are steel.
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Old Aug 31, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Hi George,

I'm operating in a different league I'm afraid. I've built everything without castings and utilizing only a drill press and hand tools. I'll take all the pressure I can get, but will be using only a single burner built for the original boiler idea.
The engine heads are aluminum as are the pistons. The cylinder blocks are steel.
Hye's

You have to be congratulated on making your engine without a lathe and only a drill press and hand tools, well done !!!!!!

The reason that I asked what materials you used is that flash steam can be very hot and the fact that you use Aluminum in my opinion it is unsuitable for flash steam.
If you look at the last few pics of my engine you will note that the cylinder head is burned and that is after just 3- runs, compare it to the early pics before it was fired, the cylinder head is machined from a lump of mild steel so Ali wouldn't last long.

However I would suggest that you make a coil from 1/4 " o/d copper tube by winding it round a 2" mandrill leaving at least 1/8" between coils to allow the heat to get all around the coil, if you made say 12 coils you would get approx 6 ft of tube into a 6" long boiler housing which you could line with ceramic wool, the whole sheebang is quite easy to make, the casing can be mild steel or stainless, I used a big 30 litre peddle bin ( .015" thk ) which I bought from the Super store and as it was on display with a large dent in it I bought it for a 1/3 of the asking price, no I didn't kick it before negotiating a price.

You could then use your burner but you must keep the copper coil below red hot heat.
Your pump at 3/8" dia x 1/2 stroke is too big but if you throttle the water from your tank to the suction side of the pump you can control the amount of heat going to the engine by adjusting the amount of water going to the coil and hence the speed.

The displacement lubricator that you have if the steam is too hot it will not condense in the lubricator which will starve the engine of oil and it will seiz so you have to control the heat of the steam to the engine.

It all sounds rather complicated and difficult to explain but over time I am quite sure you will succeed, if you can make such a good job of the engine , making the steam generator shouldn't pose a problem to you.

My water pump is 1/4" dia x adjustable stroke which is set at 3/8" and the fuel pump is 3/16" dia x same stroke both are geared down 6/1 from the engine which does 15,000 rpm on the bench and guessed at 10.000 in the water.
Fuel is paraffin ( kerozene to you guys ) in my early experiments I wanted to use L.P.G. but couldn't get enough heat long enough to power the engine.

Don't be put off, you can make a suitable plant to power the engine and if I can be of further help just ask.

George.
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Old Sep 01, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Portland OR USA
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George,

Thank you very much for the info. I was going to ask what kind of insulation you used and how I know. I don't know what ceramic wool is but I will find out. Also I hadn't thought of varying the amount of water supply to the pump as a means of controlling the speed. Great! My engine is large (1.76 cu. inches) (3/4" bore by 1" stroke) so needs a bit of steam volume. It will not, however, run nearly as fast as yours. The valve timing is merely guesstimate. I hope I can generate enough pressure/volume without the heat extremes of your system. As you can see by the photos I've constructed the displacement lubricator with greater than average condensation area. The engine is a closed sump of course, but not sufficiently sealed to retain much oil ( alas, no castings or milling machine ) so I give it a few shots of oil via the crankcase breathers before each run (on air only so far). Enough oil escapes the crankcase via the rear crankshaft to lubricate the chain valve drive, and enough oil passes the ringless pistons to lubricate the rotary valves. I have started construction of a coil using 1/4" steel tubing. I really appreciate your advice concerning spacing. I had planned on a 20 foot length of tubing, but I guess I'll reduce that.

Thanks again!

The idler sprocket shown in photo has since been replaced by a pulley. The flywheel is actually a casting, but began life as a caster wheel before I hacksawed it to present dimensions and "turned' it of the drill press.
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Old Sep 01, 2012, 03:43 PM
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George,

Thank you very much for the info. I was going to ask what kind of insulation you used and how I know. I don't know what ceramic wool is but I will find out. Also I hadn't thought of varying the amount of water supply to the pump as a means of controlling the speed. Great! My engine is large (1.76 cu. inches) (3/4" bore by 1" stroke) so needs a bit of steam volume. It will not, however, run nearly as fast as yours. The valve timing is merely guesstimate. I hope I can generate enough pressure/volume without the heat extremes of your system. As you can see by the photos I've constructed the displacement lubricator with greater than average condensation area. The engine is a closed sump of course, but not sufficiently sealed to retain much oil ( alas, no castings or milling machine ) so I give it a few shots of oil via the crankcase breathers before each run (on air only so far). Enough oil escapes the crankcase via the rear crankshaft to lubricate the chain valve drive, and enough oil passes the ringless pistons to lubricate the rotary valves. I have started construction of a coil using 1/4" steel tubing. I really appreciate your advice concerning spacing. I had planned on a 20 foot length of tubing, but I guess I'll reduce that.

Thanks again!

The idler sprocket shown in photo has since been replaced by a pulley. The flywheel is actually a casting, but began life as a caster wheel before I hacksawed it to present dimensions and "turned' it of the drill press.

Hi Haye's,
No don't even think about going down the road that I went, that engine is the second one and the development took about 6 years, no castings were used on the making just large lumps of ALI and steel, with all sorts of materials to withstand the heat and engine torque.

As you have steel tube I would make your coil as long as possible as your engine has a big capacity, it's larger than a Stuart turner D10.
It's not important the diameter of the coil I would suggest you wined it on a 2" dia or a 3" dia mandrel and the length of the casing can be any length you wish, the opening for your burner at one end could be 1.5" dia and the funnel about 1.25" dia. leave plenty of space between the coils, 1/8" to 1/4" and space all around the outside of the coil.

The insulation that I use is ceramic wool blanket 1/4" thk which the loco boys use to lag their boilers so maybe they would be able to say where to purchase it in the U.S.A.

I would say looking at you burner and tank that you are using L.P.G. with the vaporiser on the flame tube, would you consider using Paraffin in the future which does away with the liquid cooling as you draw off the liquid gas.

Another thing that you will need is a water hand pump fitted between the delivery side of your existing pump and the coil in order to get water into the coil to start up before the engine driven pump takes over.

You can make a simple housing and line the inside of it with the wool blanket all held in place with Chicken wire mesh.

Here is a pic of a paraffin burner and pressurized tank that I made some time ago.

George.
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Old Sep 01, 2012, 04:36 PM
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Portland OR USA
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Hi George,

I use whatever car gasoline I happen to have on hand for the burner. I've been using about 45 lbs pressure in the tank. It took a long time to come up with a burner that worked because I couldn't seem to find out the importance of the orifice size. It is now .025" and seems to work well.

Instead of a primer pump I plan to temporarily pressurize the water feed tank to get the system going. The hand pump required to pressurize to fuel tank will be available.

My heating coil is 2" ID. I will be making my first welded connection of lengths today.

Many thanks for the info.
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Hye's View Post
Hi George,

I use whatever car gasoline I happen to have on hand for the burner. I've been using about 45 lbs pressure in the tank. It took a long time to come up with a burner that worked because I couldn't seem to find out the importance of the orifice size. It is now .025" and seems to work well.

Instead of a primer pump I plan to temporarily pressurize the water feed tank to get the system going. The hand pump required to pressurize to fuel tank will be available.

My heating coil is 2" ID. I will be making my first welded connection of lengths today.

Many thanks for the info.
Hey's,
If it's not to late can I suggest that you make the coil 3" I/D,
I didn't know that your burner was Gasoline and with a .025" jet you will produce some very super heated flash steam which makes me worry about the Ali pistons and head, I had assumed that you were using L.P.G.
The burner that I posted had a .025" jet and with the boiler having a top tube of 2" dia and the flame going thro" coiled pipe from the underside forming a tunnel of coils in less than 1.5 mins whipped the pressure up to 150 psi. of highly super heated steam which turned the steel cylinder head black.

I would also suggest to protect your engine that you fit a safety valve and a pressure gauge with the safety valve set at 40 psi for starters to see how the engine coped.
To fit these all that is required is that you bring the 1/4" pipe up thro' the casing to a 'TEE' bar with tapped holes to take the valve and the pressure gauge and another to the engine 3- in all.

The tube that I use in my steamer is 1/4" O/D. stainless 316 and to join the tube I make sleeves about 1" long with the pipe inserted equally and then the joint is welded.

Regards
George.
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 01:03 PM
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Portland OR USA
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Thanks George,

Here's a picture of the safety valve I constructed for the boiler system I'll see what I can do with it once I get the coil finished. I would certainly like to see 150 lbs if I could get it without destructing the engine. A picture of a couple of the corpses.
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 02:45 PM
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Thanks George,

Here's a picture of the safety valve I constructed for the boiler system I'll see what I can do with it once I get the coil finished. I would certainly like to see 150 lbs if I could get it without destructing the engine. A picture of a couple of the corpses.
Hye's,

I don't see why you shouldn't achieve 150 p.s.i with a coil and your petrol burner, I feel that your problem is going to be controlling the steam input to your engine especially the high temperatures that can be raised with a flash steam coil and that is why I mentioned the water control to the coil and a pressure gauge to see what is happening and a safety valve to control things and you can set the valve against your pressure gauge, but for starters please not 150 p.s.i..

Is it too late to make your coil 3" dia which would allow you to fit in more tube to give a greater water content coming up from the cold end and make it more controllable.

I look forward to seeing your efforts on the coil and will continue to help if I can.

George.
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