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Old Sep 17, 2014, 06:08 AM
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Wingerons Pitcherons For 3D Foamie Flying

Has anyone tried wingerons or pitcherons on a Foamie or even a balsa model?
I seen it once on a very small flat sheet Foamie and it flew amazing. I was wondering if it would be as good on a 39" size Foamie? I have a HK Gee Bee 3D and the wings come in two pieces so it would be very easy to do. Thats if i can figure out how to make the bell crank work inside the profile fuselage. Maybe there could be a balsa box slightly wider than the profile fuselage?
This is the only video i could find on YouTube showing how they work, starts around 27 seconds in.
Anybody got any ideas? My hope is it will allow faster rifle rolls and loops etc, maybe even improve funnel hovering.
Pitcheron Slope Glider (2 min 27 sec)

Tony
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 08:09 AM
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Recently there was a video posted on Facebook of a foamy with wingerons, unfortunately I can't find it again. The roll rate was a pure blur. Years ago I did pitcherons on a .32glow powered Stickit V. The pitch rate was miserable, without any force pushing the tail. The plane in the video you posted wouldn't be concerned with small fast loops. The roll rate on the Stickit was phenomenal though, it actually generated noise similar to prop noise. The problem was stopping the roll would often strip out the servo gears. That wouldn't be a problem on a foamie.

Azarr

Edit, not the one I was thinking of, but an oldie of the Jinx.


JINX Electric RC Plane from M-A-E (2 min 38 sec)
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 05:22 PM
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Man that's what i,m talking about,, sometimes ya just gotta think outside the box.
There must be some problems with my idea though? I mean, why hasn't anybody done a large Foamie with Wingerons or Pitcherons?
Often we just stick with what we know?
Thanks Azarr, enjoyed that video.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 06:30 PM
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[QUOTE=Harlem;29466537]Man that's what i,m talking about,, sometimes ya just gotta think outside the box.
There must be some problems with my idea though? I mean, why hasn't anybody done a large Foamie with Wingerons or Pitcherons?
Often we just stick with what we know?
Thanks Azarr, enjoyed that video.[/QUOTE We are eagerly awaiting you report Tony. You know your going to do it.
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Old Sep 17, 2014, 07:43 PM
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Maybe the Foamie designers have missed another trick hehehe

Seriously though,,, i have been designing tonight and think it may be possible with a little thinking outta the box. I think the reason it's not been done is everyone assumes there must be a bellcrank, but i think i can do it without a bell crank.
I got all the gear, i just don't have the time
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Old Sep 18, 2014, 06:30 AM
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Just use 2 servos as direct drive and elevon mixing or 4 servos with 2 driving the other 2 like we used to do on mechanical mixers before computer radios became common. If I were to do it again, I'd only be concerned about roll, and use a standard tail setup, pitch without a tail moment pushing has little authority.

Here's another mix I've done you may find interesting.

Azarr (who they've never been able to keep in the box)
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Old Sep 18, 2014, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem View Post
Maybe the Foamie designers have missed another trick hehehe

Seriously though,,, i have been designing tonight and think it may be possible with a little thinking outta the box. I think the reason it's not been done is everyone assumes there must be a bellcrank, but i think i can do it without a bell crank.
I got all the gear, i just don't have the time
Ah, no excuses. You know you'll have a vid up next week.
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Old Sep 18, 2014, 08:04 PM
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I built a 32" profile out of epp with 13 gram metal gear servos driving each wing half. The design seemed to fly ok. The reason I decided to not go any further into the design was because although the roll rate was crazy fast, the plane would head down hill immediately when the roll started due to the fact that all lift was lost when the entire wing tilted. It was fun to do a full throttle down line with the ailerons cranked. Everybody loved it, but the "funness" wore off pretty quick. And then you were left with a marginally flying plane. Just my .02
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Old Sep 21, 2014, 12:18 PM
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Tim, i think you gave up a little early, that's the fun of designing, overcoming such problems?
Also with todays radio possibilities it may be possible to unwind any flying problems with a simple tx mix. Of course i would try and iron out any problems physically first. Lastly a bigger Foamie should be a little less likely to use momentum simply due to weight and of course having a wing section makes it a totally different animal. Anyway enough deliberating, i managed to make a 3D Foamie Pitcheron model and not a bell crank or pivot in sight.
The build actually was very quick, the time designing it though was considerable! Just like all the best designs, they end up being simple stupid. The conclusion is not possible from the video however, i only had time for a quick couple of flights. I can say though with wingerons (not so much Pitcherons) the plane was crazy stable in the hover. It would be absolute perfect for someone learning to hover!
3D Wingerons Pitcherons On EPP Plane (3 min 1 sec)
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Old Nov 02, 2014, 01:44 AM
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This looks really interesting and different. I wonder what such a design can do better than other designs and what trade-offs must be made? If it could be a good all around flyer then someone like Twisted should release a pitcheron plane. At least it would be more interesting than yet another imperceptibly different variation on the Crack Yak!
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Old Nov 02, 2014, 09:19 AM
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I found that it was super stable in the hover and torque rolling. But for everything else there were no real benefits (apart from it looking really cool with it wings all twisted).

Note, this plane was not so light as to make use of the real potential (for 3D that is) whereby insane roll rate can be achieve. Also very slow downlines can be performed (while rolling) due to the wings so angled giving tons of drag and braking. I have seen this on a 30" Foamie by a Salem? The other benefit would be very high speed flying whereby the wings would only needed to be moved slightly to turn giving no drag and braking like ailerons do.
I enjoyed the challenge and was fun to fly, but for most planes at least, ailerons are the way to go. Ohhhh unless you are learning to hover, i would strongly recommend learning with this.
I might have a go at making a Biplane wingeron model, that hasn't been done for sure!
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Old Nov 02, 2014, 11:19 AM
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[QUOTE=Harlem;29840257
I might have a go at making a Biplane wingeron model, that hasn't been done for sure![/QUOTE]

my last experience with a glow powered wing/pitcherons (wings moving both in pitch and roll) was semi successful. What I thought was that it really was a one trick pony, like VPP. Fun initially but quickly wore off.

That being said, You've inspired me to revisit this.WMParkflyers is cutting/painting one of their Leadfeather Yaks with no moving surfaces cut. I should have it in a few weeks. Planning wingerons and all flying stabs. Should be fun to play with.

Azarr
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Old Nov 23, 2014, 04:33 AM
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Azarr, i don't know how much they are, but for sure look the business.
Note the video surprisingly never showed any slow rolling downlines (only lot's of fast ones) which for me is the coolest feature of wingerons.
Donatas Design MXS (9 min 22 sec)
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Old Nov 23, 2014, 05:35 AM
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I saw Donatas's video on Facebook, it's very impressive. His kits are normally available in the US through Dave Lockhart, but Donatas doesn't have them on his web site yet.

Azarr
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