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Old Dec 31, 2011, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by r0sewhite View Post
I really don't understand why you accept this trouble only to get V1.9 running. V1.8_patch2 works pretty good and reliable. Until you don't need new features like GPS, there is no reason to update.
Because I soldered it to 5V already, I know not a big deal and I want to start with the lastest multiwii that is available. Because I have never flown and I also read a topic on the multiwii forum that says that every quad that gets errors on 1.9 is not functioning well. So I want to do it good.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by M4d_D View Post
i thought of that too but it works with other models and in the gui the stick movements are very smoth and exact ... so that shouldnt be the problem .

what about esc timing , high ? i put them on high as i did on my bigger copters , can that be a problem ?
Try different timing yes, but mine are on high too now so should work. Let me think about a solution.

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Originally Posted by Drekavac View Post
For all of you, where version 1.8 works OK and 1.9 do not work, try with these pullup resistors (here I use 2K2, on Flydumini I have 4k7).

Didn't see your photo, thanks ! THis is what I needed !
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 06:27 AM
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So what? The WMP can be connected to either D12, 3,3V or 5V regardless of your Multiwii version. Not your quad is the problem but V1.9.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by r0sewhite View Post
So what? The WMP can be connected to either D12, 3,3V or 5V regardless of your Multiwii version. Not your quad is the problem but V1.9.

I tried to tell him that earlier, but you just cant tell some people!
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 07:09 AM
QuaDreko pilot :)
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No.
Below version 1.9 there is no checking for debug errors, so it is working, but errors are still there, just not shown.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 07:23 AM
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Little communication errors in data flows are usual and not always a proof of a faulty system. You have them everywhere, from wireless systems to computer networks. If they influence a proper work, there is some kind of data correction or control in the transmition protocol. In our case, little IC errors are no problem. You don't even notice them when you fly. So it doesn't make sense in my eyes to develop a software that makes these communication errors to big problems.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 07:49 AM
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i think we can conclude that 1.9 might have something to do with our models not flying ^^

what are the changes between 1.9 and 1.8patch2 ? we should search for the reason
alex ? ^^
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Drekavac View Post
No.
Below version 1.9 there is no checking for debug errors, so it is working, but errors are still there, just not shown.
Yes, that's why I don't want to use the older version! I saw you posting about the pullup resistors like 10 pages ago on this topic. Was going to PM you but you posted the photo already thanks !

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Originally Posted by r0sewhite View Post
Little communication errors in data flows are usual and not always a proof of a faulty system. You have them everywhere, from wireless systems to computer networks. If they influence a proper work, there is some kind of data correction or control in the transmition protocol. In our case, little IC errors are no problem. You don't even notice them when you fly. So it doesn't make sense in my eyes to develop a software that makes these communication errors to big problems.
True that, but if we always keep on saying that errors are normal there will be no improvement to the system, So if you keep on finding errors and try to fix them in a correct way, we'll get some quads with even better working software !

I know, it's sometimes hard to switch from firmware to firmware.. But if you want no errors you have to.

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Originally Posted by M4d_D View Post
i think we can conclude that 1.9 might have something to do with our models not flying ^^

what are the changes between 1.9 and 1.8patch2 ? we should search for the reason
alex ? ^^
v1.9 might look like a stupid update but after reading this topic everything makes sense now.. (I'm not sure if I may post this link but well.. here you go!)
MultiWii I2C Errors v1.9
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jessestr View Post
True that, but if we always keep on saying that errors are normal there will be no improvement to the system, So if you keep on finding errors and try to fix them in a correct way, we'll get some quads with even better working software !

I know, it's sometimes hard to switch from firmware to firmware.. But if you want no errors you have to.
Errors ARE normal in a particular way. For example, a high quality compact disc still has got at least 3 block reading errors per second. The industrial standard allows up to 220 BLER. Trying to get a CD free from reading errors is like trying to get a highway free from any dust particles.

All that matters is the amount of errors. True, the WMP is not the best sensor. But using a "bad" sensor with a error-sensitive software is simply nonsense. Either get a better sensor or flash an error-tolerant software.

By using V1.9 with your WMP you don't reduce (usually not noticeable) errors, you just make the to a problem without having the possibility to reduce them.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by r0sewhite View Post
Errors ARE normal in a particular way. For example, a high quality compact disc still has got at least 3 block reading errors per second. The industrial standard allows up to 220 BLER. Trying to get a CD free from reading errors is like trying to get a highway free from any dust particles.

All that matters is the amount of errors. True, the WMP is not the best sensor. But using a "bad" sensor with a error-sensitive software is simply nonsense. Either get a better sensor or flash an error-tolerant software.

By using V1.9 with your WMP you don't reduce (usually not noticeable) errors, you just make the to a problem without having the possibility to reduce them.
Well the getting the highway dust free is impossible but, getting these errors out of the software isn't impossible.. But I guess, it's up to everyone for himself to decide what to do. I agree with you too, but I'd like to run it on 1.9.

Since I am new to quadcopters, multiwii & flyduino, even r/c .. I don't know what good sensors are for these multiwii copters. I'd like to upgrade my gear in the future, better motors, better esc's, better sensors, but I do not have the experience to know WM+ is a bad sensor.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 10:22 AM
QuaDreko pilot :)
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Jessestr, no prob, I'm glad if I can help.

r0sewhite, when I soldered pullup resistors, the errors are gone.
So I corrected the problem, not just cover it with version 1.8. Get my point?
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 10:33 AM
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Ah, I almost wanted to give up but now I see that you just haven't got the point: These errors are NOT caused by the MultiWii software but from the sensor. The only problem with V1.9 is, that it doesn't tolerate these errors anymore, like previous versions did.

The reason for the WMP causing these errors is that it doesn't have true IC sensors. The sensor signals have to get translated into IC. That's why you find lots of electronic components on the WMP. A true IC sensor will be connected directly and will only need pullup rsisitors (or a LLC) and a 3.3V source.

That's why the WMP can only run at 100kHz IC speed while normal IC sensors run with 400kHz. The translation is just not fast enough for a higher bus speed.

So you see: Regarding the WMP, Alex removed the improvement you're searching for. I am not an IC expert so I can only guess that his ambition was to gain advantage in reading true IC sensors and accept the disadvantage of the WMP causing errors. But after almost 50 built multicopters with lots of different sensors I can tell you: WMP with V1.9 is no good choice.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Drekavac View Post
r0sewhite, when I soldered pullup resistors, the errors are gone.
So I corrected the problem, not just cover it with version 1.8. Get my point?
I see what you did but the internal pullups are only one possible cause. As I wrote, another problem is the IC translation which can't be improved. The error rate is usually a sum of internal pullups, not perfect connection (bad soldering), IC translation and other negative influences. If you've got your WMP running well with only switching from software to hardware pullups, you're lucky. But this is not absolute.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by r0sewhite View Post
I see what you did but the internal pullups are only one possible cause. As I wrote, another problem is the IC translation which can't be improved. The error rate is usually a sum of internal pullups, not perfect connection (bad soldering), IC translation and other negative influences. If you've got your WMP running well with only switching from software to hardware pullups, you're lucky. But this is not absolute.
Well I got the flyduino board and it's made for WM+ and BMA020 flydusense, + also got the flyduino MWC board, so I can't really attach another gyro I guess?

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Originally Posted by Drekavac View Post
Jessestr, no prob, I'm glad if I can help.

r0sewhite, when I soldered pullup resistors, the errors are gone.
So I corrected the problem, not just cover it with version 1.8. Get my point?
The gyro(WM+ original) alone works perfectly in 1.9 but together with the BMA020 it doesn't work.. You soldered the pullups to the WM+ would it fix my problems with the BMA020 or ? What do you think ? Thanks in advance !
Update: I had it working, but suddenly it doesn't want to work anymore, guess I'll need to put the external pullups on it.. Hm My first MWC and it's already going bad
Update 2: It's working again, when I connect the battery it works. Can't be powered from the USB.
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Old Dec 31, 2011, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jessestr View Post
Well I got the flyduino board and it's made for WM+ and BMA020 flydusense, + also got the flyduino MWC board, so I can't really attach another gyro I guess?
You guess wrong. Take a closer look at the Flydusense: On the other side you find a square marked as "FreeIMU" for example. The Flydusense provides 3.3V and 5V and straight IC connection so you can not even put a WMP and BMA or a FreeIMU on it. You can put almost any sensor or IMU on it.

It's obvious that you don't know much about Multiwii, sensors or the Flyduino. That's okay because we all started like that once ago. But do yourself a favor and learn a little about that before you think you know what to improve. Please don't get me wrong: I don't want to blame you in any way, it's just an advice.

And btw: A WMP+BMA connected to a MEGA board like the Flyduino is casting pearls before the swine. But this is only my personal mind.
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