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Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:09 AM
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elmagnificado's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
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Manta inspired twin boom canard (original design by ttvortex)

So my newest experiment is another deviant art find from ttvortex. It's called the Manta. I haven't decided on the original Manta or the MK2 version, but I'll post updates as I go through the design/build process.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 02:27 AM
serial scratchbuilder
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Canada, BC, Mission
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Ambitious! Twin pusher I assume?
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 02:56 AM
Fremont, CA
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How in heck are the booms attached to the propeller shafts? Gotta see it to believe it. The boom has a bearing for the prop shaft?
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 03:09 AM
serial scratchbuilder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacob7 View Post
How in heck are the booms attached to the propeller shafts? Gotta see it to believe it. The boom has a bearing for the prop shaft?
Be the same as building a counter-rotating assembly but use the inner shaft as a boom = lotta work.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 09:14 AM
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Very very cool design ... hope to see it fly!

Full scale would have lots of propulsion problems though. There really is no functional reason to have the props axially separated like they are. The whole point of counter-rotating props is to recover the "swirl" from the front prop in the rear one, but with the axial separation here, you completely loose that benefit.

Assuming turbine power, you could solve the structural problems for the boom mounts with gearboxes and shafting but it would be extremely heavy, and the intake and exhaust placement is pure fantasy ... which of course is the whole point

Like I said though, it looks "fantastic" and I'll be watching!!!
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 10:46 AM
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The initial design will be very basic just to see the airframe fly. I'm gonna be using foam board and laminated 1/2" sheet foam shaped to form the fuse and booms. Dual motors only in the rear. I don't think my skill level is at the point to attempt a coaxial boom/prop setup.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 11:23 AM
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Which ways forward!!!!!!!!

only kidding,

That looks mental. Best of luck with the build.

Yeah, for concept, its not worth doing the counter props on the booms, just yet.

But you could modify an EDF prop and just have them free wheel, would still give the looks while it is flying
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:08 PM
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Made a quick profile mock up for glide testing and cg determination. Used a 40" wing from an old hobby zone challenger I had lying around. Might use this wing on the final version with a carbon spar. I'm having to use the perspective views to get the proportions so they'll definitely need to be tweaked for the next phase.
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 01:24 PM
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Should fly OK, but will probably have a high stall speed with that high aspect ratio wing.
With twin pushers on the back of those booms you will probably need to mount the battery on the foreplane (canard) and run wires along the booms to it.
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 06:33 PM
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Are you thinking ailerons and elevator for controls? Leaving the V tail alone? You are always doing something wild my friend!
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 09:20 PM
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Yeah. The wings will be level without any aoa for the most part. The front canard is about 1" below the wing level. This is just a dry fit in the picture.

The cg was my first concern when starting this experiment. I've built a wing/canard before with similar proportions and had to install a cross bar between the booms for the battery. Well see this weekend.

I'm gonna have all functioning surfaces. Mostly elevator and ailerons with the v-tail on a switch to convert to only rudder or mixed with elevator.
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Old Jun 21, 2014, 12:24 AM
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progress

This configuration seems to have the best cg when glide testing. Just need to throw on some servos and electronics and take her for a maiden. For starters I'm just going with v-tail (ruddervator?) and canard elevator. I'll have the v-tail on a switch to turn off the elevator for rudder only if needed. Trying to keep it light with only 3 servos. Probably a moot point since the dual esc's and 1600mah battery (for balance) are gonna make it pretty hefty. I'll install some ailerons if there's not enough roll control and extend the nose for a lighter battery if needed. Right now I've got two tiny 1510 2200kv motors turning 6x4's (to keep the tail light). If that's not enough power (or if I burn them out ), I've only got them zip-tied for easy change-out with some Turnigy 2826 2200kv motors.

I know it's ugly, but this phase is just to see how she handles. Then on to something a little more pretty.
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Old Jun 21, 2014, 03:10 AM
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Found some 3-blade 5x4.5 props I had lying around for more of a "scale" look. I was also able to balance with a smaller 1000 mah battery after putting in the canard servo. Holding it with my hand, it can go vertical at a little over half throttle so power should not be an issue. I programmed in some differential thrust just for kicks to see if I can get some crazy flat spins. Might be a little ambitious for an alpha version profile plane, but what the heck? :-)

Ready for maiden! I'll post vids if I have some success.
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Last edited by elmagnificado; Jun 21, 2014 at 03:19 AM.
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Old Jun 21, 2014, 03:51 PM
skumgummi dave
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elmagnificado:

Another good looker Dude!

Dave-
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Old Jun 21, 2014, 04:49 PM
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Thanks Dave. Snapped a boom on the maiden (kind of expected) so got a little patch work and reinforcing to do. Also need to install ailerons and maybe bigger tail fins. There was no roll control to get out of a spin.
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