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Old Oct 07, 2012, 06:07 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Hmm -
Do you think I've goofed with the motor? - yours seem a lot different to mine.
Would be great if the stock prop would work (have 6 now).
Testing that old rotor FET as I write this (it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either!).
- John

PS - The old FET is u/s: so my 'cure' would have presumably worked with any mosfet. Still have a lot of the 16A FETs from my F39 Days.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 06:13 AM
Registered User
Germany, BW, Göppingen
Joined Aug 2012
70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
I have a 1500kv and a 2000kv to try. I have the same converter.
I was going to modify the stock prop just to see if that will work.
I'll be using this one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=10747

Hinnerk is using the 1800kv version with a 6x4 prop. According to him, sometimes it's not strong enough, to widstand the main motor's turning effect.
So I purchased the stronger one and a 6x5 prop.
Tomorrow I'll get my hands on some polyamid to build a new motor holder, but I won't be able to set up everything until wednesday due to exams.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 06:20 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Hmm -
Do you think I've goofed with the motor? - yours seem a lot different to mine.
Would be great if the stock prop would work (have 6 now).
Testing that old rotor FET as I write this (it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either!).
- John
I don't know. I am no electronics expert either. My best guess was that the 1500kv would be about the right speed with the stock prop. Only live testing will tell the tale.
I though I remembered Moki and someone else used a 2000kv motor when they did this. Time will tell.
I just need the wind to go down so I can do a real test flight with my new flybar conversion. If it is stable and flyable, I can then test in some wind and see if it improves the response and handeling under those conditions. I have only tested a little when tuning, but at 100% AIL/ELV it felt like Ivwas fling my 450. I have it set to 80% for first real fly.
Once that is all sorted out, I will install the brushless tail.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 06:39 AM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
It would seem my motor will be underpowered, then. I guess I was a bit concerned with putting to much weight in the tail, after needing 25g extra in the nose to counter the normally fairly high winds in my field in runaway lift/gust conditions.
Of course, the extra power of the BL main gives extra options. But if we all push ahead, someone is bound to come up with an optimum configuration - and a fully FBL heli, under $200, that'll come close to CP performance (if BThirsk's mods work!)
And I won't need to go the MCPx way
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 06:51 AM
Registered User
Germany, BW, Göppingen
Joined Aug 2012
70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
It would seem my motor will be underpowered, then. I guess I was a bit concerned with putting to much weight in the tail, after needing 25g extra in the nose to counter the normally fairly high winds in my field in runaway lift/gust conditions.
Of course, the extra power of the BL main gives extra options. But if we all push ahead, someone is bound to come up with an optimum configuration - and a fully FBL heli, under $200, that'll come close to CP performance (if BThirsk's mods work!)
And I won't need to go the MCPx way
The extra weight is my biggest worry... :/
But I thought of replacing the tail boom + fins with carbon ones.
It won't be much less weight... but we'll see
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 07:19 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoersender View Post
The extra weight is my biggest worry... :/
But I thought of replacing the tail boom + fins with carbon ones.
It won't be much less weight... but we'll see
A carbon boom will lose a little weight. The plastic fines are lighter than carbon.
I just weighed the brushless motor and the blade holder at 16,grams.
The stock motor is 13grams by itself. That does not include the weight of the jack shaft and gears, so I don't see weight as an issue.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 07:45 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
It would seem my motor will be underpowered, then. I guess I was a bit concerned with putting to much weight in the tail, after needing 25g extra in the nose to counter the normally fairly high winds in my field in runaway lift/gust conditions.
Of course, the extra power of the BL main gives extra options. But if we all push ahead, someone is bound to come up with an optimum configuration - and a fully FBL heli, under $200, that'll come close to CP performance (if BThirsk's mods work!)
And I won't need to go the MCPx way
This will never perform as a CP. My goal is to get it close. I either have to do that, or quit flying it. it is just to hard to fly a FP where you need full cycling to do a banked turn and then fly a CP where you only need a slight touch to do the same thing.
I'd you want a CP and one you can fly out doors, the blade 130x has been highly recommended by several people on the Walkera V120 thread that is just as good or better in some respects as the V120. The size is nice and you can fly out doors. You can tame it down in the TX to suit you flying skills.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 08:07 AM
Brent 黑雁
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Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
I've found the Blade 9t 0.5 works well for me.
Where I fly (near the sea), the wind is normally around 20k/h with higher gusts. I have lost one F45 to the wind - and IME, the only way I can guarantee to get the nose down is BL,with about 25grams of BluTac in the nose of the canopy, and the heavier Turnigy batts (+losing the horizontal stab and support bars).
The 9t seems to let the EH200 run cooler under these circumstances.

I would certainly like to know if a CP would fare much better in my environment. Was tossing up between a 300X and a 450 3D? Any input appreciated
Was that 9 tooth pinion an EFLH1409. If so, I might get one to try.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 08:26 AM
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Germany, BW, Göppingen
Joined Aug 2012
70 Posts
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Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
A carbon boom will lose a little weight. The plastic fines are lighter than carbon.
I just weighed the brushless motor and the blade holder at 16,grams.
The stock motor is 13grams by itself. That does not include the weight of the jack shaft and gears, so I don't see weight as an issue.
I've drafted two holders for now.
The first one will use the original holder + epoxy so that the new motor fits right into the old gearbox



The idea I'm planning to use right now is, to create a new holder from scratch. I calculated it's volume and then the weight.
It'll be 7-10gr heavy, depending how thick it will be.



I also considered the zero gravity line of the motor + prop:



So everything is aligned to the horizontal axis and perfectly balanced out.


I've caltulated the weight like this:
  • motor 20gr
  • prop 5gr
  • holder 7-10gr
gives a total of 32-35gr

This stands against the weight of the original motor + gearbox + prop: 20gr
Total: 12-15gr heavier.

Using a carbon tube for further weight reduce:

Stock tube weights 12gr.
Carbon tube weight depends on the dimensions.
Found tubes around 5-11gr
This results in 1-7gr less weight.
At best the tail motor mod will make the heli around 5gr heavier (desregarding momentum and that stuff... to complex for a quick weight overlook)
In practice I would say, that with a carbon tube, the total weight gain will be about
9-10gr.


So for now I'm relieved
I hope everything works out how I plan
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 03:28 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Stoersender -

With planning like that, HOW can it fail to go? - I wait in awe .

Bthirsk -

It's the BL1609. The 9t definitely works better than the 11t - for my setup. Tried both, and couldn't get hold of a 10 quickly enough when the motor came.
And now reading up on the 130x: seems a good alternative, as I really have nowhere to fly indoors (carport is nearest option).
(Also old fingers, which don't work so well on very small helis!)
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 06:34 PM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
1,744 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Stoersender -

With planning like that, HOW can it fail to go? - I wait in awe .

Bthirsk -

It's the BL1609. The 9t definitely works better than the 11t - for my setup. Tried both, and couldn't get hold of a 10 quickly enough when the motor came.
And now reading up on the 130x: seems a good alternative, as I really have nowhere to fly indoors (carport is nearest option).
(Also old fingers, which don't work so well on very small helis!)
Thanks. I'm going to get that gear so I can give the throttle stick a little more spread and I don't need quite as much wide open throttle sipped as I have.

And if you get the 130x, I'm sure you will like it. I got a MasterCP several weeks ago which is a 200 size and it is very nice to fly as well. It's very stable but not too intimidating. And I have old fingers as well that don't recover as well as they did 20 years ago.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 07:04 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
Darn Broke-A** Loops

Well broken loops and a little breeze almost cost me my heli today.

Flying around the park minding my own business and I start heading for some trees for some reason, so I goosed the throttle to clear them. Thinking the breeze blew it over there I spun around to head back but all I did was climb. I was thinking it must really be blowing up there so I turned sideways and tried to bank into the wind, but I had no control. Now I am up about 300 feet, out over a fenced in school yard about the same distance, and the more I tried the further out it went. When it was just a speck, I decided to just cut the throttle and let it drop, running back to my truck at the same time.

I am in a residential area and when I got to where I thought the heli fell I started looking up in the trees and was able to find one homeowner who would look in his backyard for me (I don't think anyone else was awake yet). Nothing. I then walked up to the next street over figuring which way the wind may have taken it, and there it was laying in the ally. LUCKED OUT! How it worked it's way between the houses, trees and power lines I will never know because the chip on my video camera ended up full before I went out of control. Would have been a good one.

Only damage beside the loops was a bent up balance bar and broken tail motor.

This leads me to the inevitable fixing of the loops which I just finished and I will try in a few days. Used a piece of brass and epoxy.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 07:11 PM
Hangin' for a strong SW
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Australia, VIC, Sebastopol
Joined Apr 2012
740 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
Well broken loops and a little breeze almost cost me my heli today.

Flying around the park minding my own business and I start heading for some trees for some reason, so I goosed the throttle to clear them. Thinking the breeze blew it over there I spun around to head back but all I did was climb. I was thinking it must really be blowing up there so I turned sideways and tried to bank into the wind, but I had no control. Now I am up about 300 feet, out over a fenced in school yard about the same distance, and the more I tried the further out it went. When it was just a speck, I decided to just cut the throttle and let it drop, running back to my truck at the same time.

I am in a residential area and when I got to where I thought the heli fell I started looking up in the trees and was able to find one homeowner who would look in his backyard for me (I don't think anyone else was awake yet). Nothing. I then walked up to the next street over figuring which way the wind may have taken it, and there it was laying in the ally. LUCKED OUT! How it worked it's way between the houses, trees and power lines I will never know because the chip on my video camera ended up full before I went out of control. Would have been a good one.

Only damage beside the loops was a bent up balance bar and broken tail motor.

This leads me to the inevitable fixing of the loops which I just finished and I will try in a few days. Used a piece of brass and epoxy.
A good lesson to take from that is if you lose control don't fly higher! As soon as you suspect loss of control you're best off to bring it lower and either try being it back at low altitude or just drop it where it's at (even just reducing throttle to reduce the harshness of the landing
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 07:24 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
828 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by slothy89 View Post
A good lesson to take from that is if you lose control don't fly higher! As soon as you suspect loss of control you're best off to bring it lower and either try being it back at low altitude or just drop it where it's at (even just reducing throttle to reduce the harshness of the landing
You know I thought about that, but at the time I was wondering how I was going to scale that 8' chain link fence, so I kept trying. I will just keep it plain lower in that park.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 10:48 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
1 Posts
RX n TX change

hello,

have anybody change the different remote and rx for this F45 ?
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