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Old Jan 19, 2014, 12:18 PM
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HINGES on a Micro

I put it under ,Foamies (Scratchbuilt), but think it belongs here.

HINGES on a Micro
What are you guys doing for hinges on these light airplanes ?

I kinda Don't really like the CA ones ; there too stiff for a 2.3g servo
on the micro birds, but ok for the bigger models with bigger servos.

Tape is Light, but makes the controls a bit sloppy.

Carbon rod with a glass tube outside has No slop, but it's Heavy.

So what do YOU use ?

Bille
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 01:15 PM
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epilot's Avatar
Faroe Islands, Sandoy, Sandur
Joined Nov 2000
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I use Blenderm tape. I don't know what you mean by "it makes the controls a bit sloppy". How do you apply it?
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 01:15 PM
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Paris (France)
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I use overhead transparencies. They are flexible, strong and light.
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indoor_fr View Post
I use overhead transparencies. They are flexible, strong and light.
I'm probably doing it Wrong, & that's why my controls have slack,
(my tape bends) ?

Could you show ma a picture of your hinge please ?

Thanks : Bille
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 01:57 PM
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glewis's Avatar
USA, FL, Tampa
Joined Jul 2002
4,705 Posts
I use floppy disk mylar. I remove the oxide with acetone and sand the mylar lightly to roughen it up so ca sticks to it well. Cut into 1/16" wide strips for use on my 16" span micros. Wider strips for larger models.

Glenn
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 02:01 PM
miataman
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Erie Pa.
Joined Oct 2007
660 Posts
I use UHU. Full length of piece needing hinged. These don't fail and the smallest servos have no trouble operating them if applied right. Makes an almost invisible hinge.
JCS
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 02:47 PM
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West of California Speedway, East of LaLa, North of Disneyland
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If you bevel (at approx. 45 degrees) at least one of the two adjoining surfaces, then just about any tape will work with no slop. This method allows a large range of control surface travel.

Blenderm is fine for large indoor or park size planes, but for tiny indoor models, I use either Scotch Magic tape or Micropore (it's the paper-based tape they use in doctors offices and hospitals for adhering things other than sutures).

For models 10 grams or less, I use small strips of grocery store produce bags adhered with thinned white glue. Think .03 grams!!
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Old Jan 19, 2014, 04:39 PM
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USA, ID, Coeur D'Alene
Joined Dec 2003
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i have used a number of different things for hinges, everything from scotch tape, masking tape, floppy disks, receipt paper, polymicro covering, parklight covering, ca hinges, candy wrapper, thread cross hinges, blenderm tape.

as for sloppiness, that can come from the control linkages, the wire in the horns, and the wire in the servo arms as well as the rods being too flexible in between the servo and the surface being operated.
you stated that your building a model with a 2.3 gram servo, and concerned about slop. so i would make sure that your control rods are guided well in between, and before installation of the servo arm and control horns, apply a drop of ca on each Z-bend while in the horn/arms. let it set up and then break it loose again, this removes ALL chance of slop at the linkages, this way the last thing to worry about is hinges.
weather its tape or glue, it will make little difference as long as its done neatly.
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Old Jan 20, 2014, 04:10 AM
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Budapest, Hungary
Joined Mar 2005
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For my actuator models, I use about a 1-2 mm length of a very small diameter hypodermic needle with a very thin wire.

Bruce
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Old Jan 20, 2014, 11:07 AM
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Thanks for your input Guys !!

I should have said what i plan to Mod ; why i needed the advise.
I went on the UMX SBACH 342 Thread, and casually mentioned that
there wasn't enough rudder & elevator authority to do a Lomcovak
with any degree of certainty, that it will actually go-over when i ask it to.
(1 out of every 5 to 8 tries).
The controls were Too spongy, and the soft foam control-surfaces give
way with the slightest amount of air-pressure.

Those guys acted like i just Beat there Mother, because i wanted to
Mod there perfect airplane. They are NOT builders.

I started RC airplanes & helicopters in 1971 ; Ya had to build your own
kits, and ARF & foamy machines had not bin invented yet !

I've never built a Micro before, and wanted to get advise from Guys
that are interested enough to actually make there own.

As soon as i get a platform on this Sbach that i Like; i'll mold it and build
one from 1.8oz/cub-ft --1/16" thick Nomex Honeycomb, and 1/4oz Kevlar-mat
and 0.3oz fiberglass mat OR 1/2oz glass cloth, and 3K carbon tow where needed.
It makes for a rather Light structure.

http://thayercraft.com/104.htm

http://www.cstsales.com/glass_tissue.html

i'll build a prototype in light 1/16 Balsa & 3K carbon tow First ; it's easy & cheap, but
way heavier than above.

SO -- i can Mold & do lay-ups, but need to know about Hinges on
a Micro ; something i know nothing about, on a plane that small.

Thanks for your time : Bille
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Old Jan 20, 2014, 12:42 PM
Not always grumpy!!
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UK, Eastleigh, Eastleigh
Joined Jul 2010
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i tend to use plastic strip,

like the hard plastic you get from food packaging, not egg packets, but almost like milk bottle plastic.

if they are too stiff for you, simply cut a v in each side of the tab to reduce the middle width, this will in turn make it softer to bend, but keeping the tabs the correct thickness, means the CA has enough surface area to glue well.

This is what i do for my models, and is very customisable, play with it,
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Old Jan 20, 2014, 12:53 PM
Romans 8:34-39
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United States, FL, Davenport
Joined May 2012
8,154 Posts
HI BILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wilfor gave you a great video on your other thread in the scratchbuild forum on Foam-Tac hinges, those work on nearly every foam. I've used them a lot on different scratch built planes, especially the EPP ones. They can tear pretty easily when you crash - ask me how I know

Tape hinges can be tricky if you're using EPP, not many tapes like to stick to EPP. But tape hinges can be made with very little slop in the actual hinge surface. Sand the two mating surfaces flat is one key so they line up with no gaps between them. Apply the tape carefully, if using blenderm it's flexible and pretty easy to get air bubbles so go slow and try not to stretch it. It's sticky as all get out, even after you pull it off. It'll take foam with it too if you have to remove it. Packing tape works well too but on a micro you'd probably have to cut the tape into strips as it usually doesn't come smaller than 2" wide rolls.

Tension hinges are described best here: http://redigital.org/wp/hobbies/tens...ges-with-tape/ and they work like a charm, but you mentioned concerns about efficiency earlier with the elevator relief in the rudder, so if that's a concern of yours you would want to seal the hinge gap with some thin transparent tape so you're not bleeding air thru at surface deflection.

The little control rods with the U bends that come with the E-Flite micros that you're using are kind of notorious for being sloppy as the U can deform a little bit and give you that slop, especially when weakened due to metal fatigue in trimming the plane, so you might want to make some straight ones. Also do the "CA Bushing" technique described prior by derk. When you mod your wing you may want to ditch those floppy little control horns too - they can flex side-to-side, causing slop - and make some stiffer ones out of an old credit / gift card. Heat a little piece of the control rod you plan to use and melt the hole thru the new horn. One plus if you make your own horns is you may be able to use the dubro quick connects for mechanical trimming like these (mount them in the horn, obviously, can't put 'em in a linear servo): http://shop.dubro.com/p/e-z-connecto...nnectors?pp=12 Just be sure to get the littlest ones they make, and use threadlock on the clamp screw once you finally dial in the trim. Another plus is that you can make the horns a bit longer instead of the straight ones and get way more throw out of the rudder & elevator just on mechanical advantage alone.

Hope that helps
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Old Jan 20, 2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoov128 View Post
HI BILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


...

Hope that helps
Yes , it Helped a LOT !!

Sorry if i pissed Ya off on that other Thread . That singular focus, accomplish
the mission at Any cost, & don't take No for an answer, (Ever) ; it comes
from what i did in the Army, and sometimes i come off as Rude if the answer
i'm seeking, doesn't present itself. That attitude works well for figuring stuff out,
but most people Don't like it, (including myself) !

I got the info i need to finish this project ; will post a build Thread after
i fly it with these Mods ; but before i actually make the molds for it and
do an all composite one.

I plan to make a mock-up and actually try Every technique for hinges
you guys told me about ; decide on the Best one After i try them All.



Thanks : Bille
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Old Jan 20, 2014, 03:00 PM
Romans 8:34-39
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United States, FL, Davenport
Joined May 2012
8,154 Posts
Told ya I'd follow the post if you make a composite Sbach. I wanna see this sucker fly. Are you making new wings from foam or are you using the existing and tightening up the hinge lines?
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Old Jan 20, 2014, 04:09 PM
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Sweden, Gävleborg County
Joined Jan 2004
851 Posts
I have used Micro Hinges from Hobbyking on my latest indoor planes. Works perfect for me on 110 grams shockflyers.

Micro hinges #2, a second version, dont know if they are better or not, but they cost a little more.
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