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Old Oct 17, 2012, 11:24 PM
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BTW - A123 only used about $150M of the $250M that was made available to them as they had to match every dollar with other funding. So for those concerned about facts, the US government did not lose $250M in this particular attempt but the smaller, yet still significant, amount of $150M.

If we all went to live in the forests in Borneo there wouldn't be any forests, so that is hardly a sensible or meaningful definition of 'being green' nor a plan for useful change. Of course I presume it was offered in jest.

It is reactionary and unhelpful to adopt the extreme position that reducing our environmental footprint means returning to a caveman or primitive hunter-gatherer existence. There is much that can be done with existing technology and moderate lifestyle changes if only we can map a path from where we are to where we need to be that enables a peaceful but prompt transition. Given the fractious character of human beings and the short-sighted nature of most politics, it seems unlikely that path will be followed and so our children will pay the price.

Meanwhile I keep flying my helis on A123 cells that are about four years and hundreds of cycles old. The technology is great and I hope the new owner can make it prosper.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 02:21 AM
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The US government (which is most of you reading this but not me) didn't lose anything. They provided a grant to bring US technology that was being manufactured in Asia back to native soil. It was never a loan that was going to be repaid so it was "lost" from day 1. If it continues under Johnson it was a wise investment and it might be considered wise just to deprive a foreign competitor.
In the meantime, we got some excellent batteries at a fraction of what they should have cost us.
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:17 AM
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"The US government (which is most of you reading this but not me) didn't lose anything."

They never do. The only money they spend is OURS.

Les
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TheWoodCrafter View Post
Beckler,

Can you please answer my question -

How does the government giving me money to buy an EV car "alleviate environmental and other issues"?
Ohmic answers it above; thought it was pretty obvious myself...
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Old Oct 18, 2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Beckler View Post
Ohmic answers it above; thought it was pretty obvious myself...
And here I thought you were trying to infer some other crap about being "Green" or the evils of "global warming".

Sorry for reading too much into that.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:23 PM
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I thought you guys may be interested in this story.

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...182043143.html

Why the heck would you build, staff and outfit a factory to build EV batteries when there wasn't a market for them?

Was this more of that Stimulus money Obama pissed away on Green jobs that don't exist?

Another example of government created jobs.
Lets pay people to do nothing.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TheWoodCrafter View Post
I thought you guys may be interested in this story.

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...182043143.html

Why the heck would you build, staff and outfit a factory to build EV batteries when there wasn't a market for them?

Was this more of that Stimulus money Obama pissed away on Green jobs that don't exist?

Another example of government created jobs.
Lets pay people to do nothing.
What car manufacturer is going to sign a contract to buy your batteries if you don't have a factory or staff to make them?
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ohmic View Post
What car manufacturer is going to sign a contract to buy your batteries if you don't have a factory or staff to make them?
Are you one of those "build it and they will come" believers?

If you knew anything about business or if you had ever owned a business you would know NOTHING happens without SALES.

The only time you piss away millions and millions of dollars on putting the cart before the horse is when it is not your money and it doesn't matter if you loose it.

Well it was FREE Federal money SUBSIDIZING a green industry that can't make it own it's own and where the technology is NOT ready for prime time.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TheWoodCrafter View Post
Are you one of those "build it and they will come" believers?

If you knew anything about business or if you had ever owned a business you would know NOTHING happens without SALES.

The only time you piss away millions and millions of dollars on putting the cart before the horse is when it is not your money and it doesn't matter if you loose it.

Well it was FREE Federal money SUBSIDIZING a green industry that can't make it own it's own and where the technology is NOT ready for prime time.
I guess your business model depends on a lot of dumb customers. No one is going to sell me anything unless they show me where it's made, how they produce it, and how many they can produce.

You can call it sales all you want. I call it supply chain risk management and I won't be buying anything from a risky supplier.

The large manufacturers spend millions a year just on the analysis for their supply chain risk management systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_...isk_management
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 12:15 AM
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Bankrupt

http://www.mlive.com/business/index....tery_make.html
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 12:24 AM
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So where do we get lithium?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium#Production
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ohmic View Post
I guess your business model depends on a lot of dumb customers. No one is going to sell me anything unless they show me where it's made, how they produce it, and how many they can produce.

You can call it sales all you want. I call it supply chain risk management and I won't be buying anything from a risky supplier.

The large manufacturers spend millions a year just on the analysis for their supply chain risk management systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_...isk_management
@ohmic Your patience with WC is to be lauded .. as he keeps posting typical redcoat questions and responses, and you have been gracious enough to respond out of courtesy.

Lets take a moment .. to give thanks for the life of a true American Hero .. WWII B-24 bomber pilot .. 35 missions over Germany .. Senator George S McGovern.
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Old Oct 20, 2012, 01:45 AM
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Time to unsubscribe. This is getting creepy.

Harry
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TayNinh68 View Post
@ohmic Your patience with WC is to be lauded .. as he keeps posting typical redcoat questions and responses, and you have been gracious enough to respond out of courtesy.

Lets take a moment .. to give thanks for the life of a true American Hero .. WWII B-24 bomber pilot .. 35 missions over Germany .. Senator George S McGovern.
Thanks for the kind words, TayNinh68.
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