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Old Sep 26, 2011, 01:41 PM
Jack Womack
Guest
n/a Posts
New competition class?

I was just sitting here looking through the F3B stuff on RCG... and
this thought came to mind... Why do we have 2 soaring classes in world
competition? Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
out of need for the best possible model for all conditions...

No need to flame me... it'll never happen... and it was just a
thought...

Jack Womack... who's missed EVERY competition this year and is totally
peeved because I can't make TNT either!!!! I need to win the lotto...
They'd have to fine me to fire me... 8^)

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Old Sep 26, 2011, 02:31 PM
Daryl Perkins
Guest
n/a Posts
RE: New competition class?

" Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
out of need for the best possible model for all conditions..."

We actually have 3 soaring classes. B/J/K. Not sure if F3F has achieved WC
status yet. (If it hasn't, it will, and that will make 4). And you're
right. F3B is the pinnacle of RC soaring, and requires a very specific type
of airframe, geared specifically towards speed. B already has a duration
element - take that little brick and fly for 10 minutes. It's quite
possible, it just isn't pleasant. The B model is optimized for speed and
distance, and you just put up with its downfalls for duration. Your average
TD guy wouldn't enjoy flying the little rocket ships. They thermal like
bricks.

The direction J model design is going isn't good for the average U.S.
soaring modeler either. The emphasis on super lightweight is not necessarily
a good thing. The J pilot looks for light weight not as a means to make it
easier to make his times, but to get a quicker launch. That's the only way
to score a longer flight time within a fixed window. The models are getting
lighter and more and more fragile... J models will get smaller, higher A/R,
and the sections will get thinner and thinner and more specialized. They'll
be purpose built for the speed launch ( more of a F3B style section) -
straight into reflex, no kiting at all, just tension up to monster tension,
throw straight and zoom instantaneously at the horn like a catapult launch.
This isn't what you guys need for your AMA style thermal duration contests.

B and J models, and the optimum TD models will get further and further
apart. But the technological advances created from the FAI classes will
filter down into our AMA style TD models.

Competition does drive development. And that is good for all of us. But one
class? Yeah... no. F3B was getting so far out of the realm of the average
thumb, J was born as a more relaxed form of competition. That's why J saw
such huge growth and increased participation. But yeah... a more relaxed
form of competition??? Not once you make it a world championship event...

-----Original Message-----
From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Womack
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:42 AM
To: RCSE
Subject: [RCSE] New competition class?

I was just sitting here looking through the F3B stuff on RCG... and
this thought came to mind... Why do we have 2 soaring classes in world
competition? Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
out of need for the best possible model for all conditions...

No need to flame me... it'll never happen... and it was just a
thought...

Jack Womack... who's missed EVERY competition this year and is totally
peeved because I can't make TNT either!!!! I need to win the lotto...
They'd have to fine me to fire me... 8^)

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Old Sep 26, 2011, 02:49 PM
Tom Nagel
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class? F3BJ

Hey Daryl:

F3BJ has a certain ring to it. Might catch on!


Tom H. Nagel
Judicium Procurator Recuperatio

-----Original Message-----
From: Daryl Perkins
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:31 PM
To: rcse@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [RCSE] New competition class?

" Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
out of need for the best possible model for all conditions..."

We actually have 3 soaring classes. B/J/K. Not sure if F3F has achieved WC
status yet. (If it hasn't, it will, and that will make 4). And you're
right. F3B is the pinnacle of RC soaring, and requires a very specific type
of airframe, geared specifically towards speed. B already has a duration
element - take that little brick and fly for 10 minutes. It's quite
possible, it just isn't pleasant. The B model is optimized for speed and
distance, and you just put up with its downfalls for duration. Your average
TD guy wouldn't enjoy flying the little rocket ships. They thermal like
bricks.

The direction J model design is going isn't good for the average U.S.
soaring modeler either. The emphasis on super lightweight is not necessarily
a good thing. The J pilot looks for light weight not as a means to make it
easier to make his times, but to get a quicker launch. That's the only way
to score a longer flight time within a fixed window. The models are getting
lighter and more and more fragile... J models will get smaller, higher A/R,
and the sections will get thinner and thinner and more specialized. They'll
be purpose built for the speed launch ( more of a F3B style section) -
straight into reflex, no kiting at all, just tension up to monster tension,
throw straight and zoom instantaneously at the horn like a catapult launch.
This isn't what you guys need for your AMA style thermal duration contests.

B and J models, and the optimum TD models will get further and further
apart. But the technological advances created from the FAI classes will
filter down into our AMA style TD models.

Competition does drive development. And that is good for all of us. But one
class? Yeah... no. F3B was getting so far out of the realm of the average
thumb, J was born as a more relaxed form of competition. That's why J saw
such huge growth and increased participation. But yeah... a more relaxed
form of competition??? Not once you make it a world championship event...

-----Original Message-----
From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Womack
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:42 AM
To: RCSE
Subject: [RCSE] New competition class?

I was just sitting here looking through the F3B stuff on RCG... and
this thought came to mind... Why do we have 2 soaring classes in world
competition? Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
out of need for the best possible model for all conditions...

No need to flame me... it'll never happen... and it was just a
thought...

Jack Womack... who's missed EVERY competition this year and is totally
peeved because I can't make TNT either!!!! I need to win the lotto...
They'd have to fine me to fire me... 8^)

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Old Sep 26, 2011, 03:09 PM
Anker Berg-Sonne
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

Well said, Daryl!

Anker

On 9/26/2011 2:31 PM, Daryl Perkins wrote:

> " Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
> only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
> If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
> out of need for the best possible model for all conditions..."
>
> We actually have 3 soaring classes. B/J/K. Not sure if F3F has achieved WC
> status yet. (If it hasn't, it will, and that will make 4). And you're
> right. F3B is the pinnacle of RC soaring, and requires a very specific type
> of airframe, geared specifically towards speed. B already has a duration
> element - take that little brick and fly for 10 minutes. It's quite
> possible, it just isn't pleasant. The B model is optimized for speed and
> distance, and you just put up with its downfalls for duration. Your average
> TD guy wouldn't enjoy flying the little rocket ships. They thermal like
> bricks.
>
> The direction J model design is going isn't good for the average U.S.
> soaring modeler either. The emphasis on super lightweight is not necessarily
> a good thing. The J pilot looks for light weight not as a means to make it
> easier to make his times, but to get a quicker launch. That's the only way
> to score a longer flight time within a fixed window. The models are getting
> lighter and more and more fragile... J models will get smaller, higher A/R,
> and the sections will get thinner and thinner and more specialized. They'll
> be purpose built for the speed launch ( more of a F3B style section) -
> straight into reflex, no kiting at all, just tension up to monster tension,
> throw straight and zoom instantaneously at the horn like a catapult launch.
> This isn't what you guys need for your AMA style thermal duration contests.
>
> B and J models, and the optimum TD models will get further and further
> apart. But the technological advances created from the FAI classes will
> filter down into our AMA style TD models.
>
> Competition does drive development. And that is good for all of us. But one
> class? Yeah... no. F3B was getting so far out of the realm of the average
> thumb, J was born as a more relaxed form of competition. That's why J saw
> such huge growth and increased participation. But yeah... a more relaxed
> form of competition??? Not once you make it a world championship event...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Womack
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:42 AM
> To: RCSE
> Subject: [RCSE] New competition class?
>
> I was just sitting here looking through the F3B stuff on RCG... and
> this thought came to mind... Why do we have 2 soaring classes in world
> competition? Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
> only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
> If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
> out of need for the best possible model for all conditions...
>
> No need to flame me... it'll never happen... and it was just a
> thought...
>
> Jack Womack... who's missed EVERY competition this year and is totally
> peeved because I can't make TNT either!!!! I need to win the lotto...
> They'd have to fine me to fire me... 8^)
>


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Old Sep 26, 2011, 03:32 PM
Tim Engel
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

Get in line...
Tim



----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Womack
To: RCSE
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 12:41 PM
Subject: [RCSE] New competition class?

(Snip)... I need to win the lotto...

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Old Sep 26, 2011, 03:34 PM
LJolly@aol.com
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

Jack,
Just got back from Ozano Italy where I participated in my first GPS
Triangle race. The race is conducted with 33% Scale models aero towed to 500
meters. It is a team event with 2 pilots forming a team. The object is to fly as
many laps around a prescribed course as possible in a 30 minute working
time.. The course is 2.5 Kilometers. A round has a 1.5 hour window plus 1
minute for each competitor in this case we had a new record 33 competitors.
So you launch enter the course and start your laps,if you find a thermal
you stop and work it. Everyone has to get your flights finished in the
window so there are always 10 or more models in the air at one time. There is a
landing in a runway worth 1 lap. The last round of the contest is a speed
round with models limited to 19 kilos. Not for every body but a real contest
with strategy, precision flying, and speed...really cool. LJ


In a message dated 9/26/2011 12:09:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bostonsearover@gmail.com writes:

Well said, Daryl!

Anker

On 9/26/2011 2:31 PM, Daryl Perkins wrote:

> " Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
> only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
> If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
> out of need for the best possible model for all conditions..."
>
> We actually have 3 soaring classes. B/J/K. Not sure if F3F has achieved

WC

> status yet. (If it hasn't, it will, and that will make 4). And you're
> right. F3B is the pinnacle of RC soaring, and requires a very specific

type

> of airframe, geared specifically towards speed. B already has a duration
> element - take that little brick and fly for 10 minutes. It's quite
> possible, it just isn't pleasant. The B model is optimized for speed and
> distance, and you just put up with its downfalls for duration. Your

average

> TD guy wouldn't enjoy flying the little rocket ships. They thermal like
> bricks.
>
> The direction J model design is going isn't good for the average U.S.
> soaring modeler either. The emphasis on super lightweight is not

necessarily

> a good thing. The J pilot looks for light weight not as a means to make

it

> easier to make his times, but to get a quicker launch. That's the only

way

> to score a longer flight time within a fixed window. The models are

getting

> lighter and more and more fragile... J models will get smaller, higher

A/R,

> and the sections will get thinner and thinner and more specialized.

They'll

> be purpose built for the speed launch ( more of a F3B style section) -
> straight into reflex, no kiting at all, just tension up to monster

tension,

> throw straight and zoom instantaneously at the horn like a catapult

launch.

> This isn't what you guys need for your AMA style thermal duration

contests.

>
> B and J models, and the optimum TD models will get further and further
> apart. But the technological advances created from the FAI classes will
> filter down into our AMA style TD models.
>
> Competition does drive development. And that is good for all of us. But

one

> class? Yeah... no. F3B was getting so far out of the realm of the average
> thumb, J was born as a more relaxed form of competition. That's why J saw
> such huge growth and increased participation. But yeah... a more relaxed
> form of competition??? Not once you make it a world championship

event...

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rcse@googlegroups.com [mailto:rcse@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of

Jack

> Womack
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:42 AM
> To: RCSE
> Subject: [RCSE] New competition class?
>
> I was just sitting here looking through the F3B stuff on RCG... and
> this thought came to mind... Why do we have 2 soaring classes in world
> competition? Why don't we combine B and J into one competition with
> only one glider allowed and a backup. The basis of my thoughts are...
> If that happened, a whole new breed of sailplaned would be developed
> out of need for the best possible model for all conditions...
>
> No need to flame me... it'll never happen... and it was just a
> thought...
>
> Jack Womack... who's missed EVERY competition this year and is totally
> peeved because I can't make TNT either!!!! I need to win the lotto...
> They'd have to fine me to fire me... 8^)
>


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Old Sep 26, 2011, 03:41 PM
Jack Womack
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

I wasn't thinking the competition would be more relaxed.... but Daryl
is right. Soaring is done in too many ways to combine into a single
class for a world competition. What was I thinking... or...
smoking!?!?

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Old Sep 26, 2011, 04:01 PM
Bill's Email
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

On 9/26/11 11:31 AM, Daryl Perkins wrote:

> We actually have 3 soaring classes. B/J/K.



Good point. So all combined we can have DLG F3B. Hand launch models, fly
speed and distance the same and use J timing and scoring for duration.
Piece of cake!!



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Old Sep 26, 2011, 04:48 PM
Bill & Bunny Kuhlman
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

SASS did 2-lap RC-HLG speed a few years back. The record for out and
back over the 50 meter course was under 4 seconds and pretty close to
3 seconds. That was accomplished by Bill Henley with a heavy model
and using the prevailing wind for a bit of DS for the downwind leg.
Bill said with some practice and a stronger wind he could have made
it under three.


>Good point. So all combined we can have DLG F3B. Hand launch models,
>fly speed and distance the same and use J timing and scoring for
>duration. Piece of cake!!


--

Bill & Bunny Kuhlman

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Old Sep 26, 2011, 04:51 PM
Bill's Email
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

I actually meant to that we would hand launch "B" planes, not fly "B"
tasks with DLG planes. Doing a hand launch of a large plane will really
prove who can fly versus who just launches well!!

On 9/26/11 1:48 PM, Bill & Bunny Kuhlman wrote:

> SASS did 2-lap RC-HLG speed a few years back. The record for out and
> back over the 50 meter course was under 4 seconds and pretty close to
> 3 seconds. That was accomplished by Bill Henley with a heavy model and
> using the prevailing wind for a bit of DS for the downwind leg. Bill
> said with some practice and a stronger wind he could have made it
> under three.
>

>> Good point. So all combined we can have DLG F3B. Hand launch models,
>> fly speed and distance the same and use J timing and scoring for
>> duration. Piece of cake!!

>


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Old Sep 26, 2011, 07:07 PM
GordySoar@aol.com
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

How about adding in Nostalgia in with BJFK now that I have my fearsome
Shuttle near completion?

Gordy

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Old Sep 27, 2011, 03:57 PM
Jack Womack
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

I feel the flames licking at my body....AAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! 8^p 8^)

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Old Sep 29, 2011, 12:04 PM
Don Harban
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: New competition class?

I've been testing various altitude switches for ALES and have come to
realize that with a little programming in the firmware for one of them
that it would be easily feasible to compete (electric OR regular TD)
to compete on altitude gain within some specified time limit. As a
practical and challenging refinement it would be just as simple to
restrict the altitude gain which is scored to be below some particular
ceiling. One of the devices I am testing right now allows the
immediate readout (with a small separate LCD device) of the launch
altitude (electric). It would be just as easy to program it to read
out altitude gained.

Something out of the box!

Happy Landings

Don

On Sep 27, 2:57 pm, Jack Womack <schreder...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I feel the flames licking at my body....AAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! 8^p 8^)


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