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Old Jul 29, 2003, 04:02 AM
Edward J. Moore
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[EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from "Edward J. Moore" <emoore@worldnet.att.net> brought to you by EFLIGHT!


Ted;
After 3 hours of sitting in the beds, I noticed the wax paper was starting
to stick to the edges of the paper. So I removed the core from the beds.
Stuck 4 pins in the bottom for feet & let it sit there.
After about 5 hours I checked on it & it was very badly bowed.
I turned the wing over & placed weights on it.
This morning I checked it & it was straight again, but 1/2 hour later it
was bowed again, but not as much.

The end result of the paper covering was excellent, the paper stayed tight
on the undercamber & the finish was very smooth, even thought the core
wasn't the best cut, I guess the glue filled in some of the hot wire
defects. The finish was dull & flat, but looks good.
I don't know if this is OK or I didn't put enough glue on it.
I failed to weigh the core before covering, so I don't know the weight gain.

I have some cores that didn't turn out so well, so I will experiment with
another one.
I was thinking of band sawing the core in 2 places (where the struts would
come through)
the length of the panel & putting in strips of 1/16" balsa vertically
(like you suggested).

This may not happen for a couple of weeks, going away.
I would like to say it's a vacation, but when your retired, you don't get
any more vacations.
No Holidays, No days off, You can't even call in sick.

Ed Moore


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Old Jul 30, 2003, 04:03 AM
Electricflyjim@aol.com
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from Electricflyjim@aol.com brought to you by EFLIGHT!

Hope you don`t mind me chipping in Ed, but my experience with BPC has been
very successful. I use a fairly light paper and I use PVA glue mixed with an
equal volume of water. I brush the diluted glue on to one side of the paper,
apply glued side to the under surface of the foam wing and brush more diluted glue
to the outside surface of the paper (this brushing will also press the paper
evenly onto the wing surface, don`t try to stretch it the paper will shrink
nice and tight as it dries.) once I have trimmed the paper to wrap around the TE
and the LE I repeat the procedure to the top surface of the wing. I then hang
the covered wing up to dry over night. I think the secret is to have both
sides of the paper glued because it is then balanced. I can`t see a problem with
an under camber because the paper is brushed into place, but it might be
advisable to apply diluted glue to the undercambered foam as well, I have found no
need to try and stretch the paper, just brush it in position, but you must
hang it up to dry. Hope this will help. James


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Old Jul 30, 2003, 04:03 AM
Ray Carver
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from "Ray Carver" <carver@c-zone.net> brought to you by EFLIGHT!

James; do you wet the paper first or use it dry and let the glue soak it?
Ray Carver
carver@c-zone.net
Shasta,California

----- Original Message -----
From: <Electricflyjim@aol.com>
To: <eflight@ezonemag.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued


> This message from Electricflyjim@aol.com brought to you by EFLIGHT!
>
> Hope you don`t mind me chipping in Ed, but my experience with BPC has been
> very successful. I use a fairly light paper and I use PVA glue mixed with

an
> equal volume of water. I brush the diluted glue on to one side of the

paper,
> apply glued side to the under surface of the foam wing and brush more

diluted glue
> to the outside surface of the paper (this brushing will also press the

paper
> evenly onto the wing surface, don`t try to stretch it the paper will

shrink
> nice and tight as it dries.) once I have trimmed the paper to wrap around

the TE
> and the LE I repeat the procedure to the top surface of the wing. I then

hang
> the covered wing up to dry over night. I think the secret is to have both
> sides of the paper glued because it is then balanced. I can`t see a

problem with
> an under camber because the paper is brushed into place, but it might be
> advisable to apply diluted glue to the undercambered foam as well, I have

found no
> need to try and stretch the paper, just brush it in position, but you must
> hang it up to dry. Hope this will help. James
>
>
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Old Jul 30, 2003, 04:03 AM
John S.
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from "John S." <jbswetland@earthlink.net> brought to you by EFLIGHT!

> Hope you don`t mind me chipping in Ed, but my experience with BPC has been
> very successful. I use a fairly light paper and I use PVA glue mixed with

an
> equal volume of water. I brush the diluted glue on to one side of the

paper,
> apply glued side to the under surface of the foam wing and brush more

diluted glue
> to the outside surface of the paper (this brushing will also press the

paper
> evenly onto the wing surface, don`t try to stretch it the paper will

shrink
> nice and tight as it dries.) once I have trimmed the paper to wrap around

the TE
> and the LE I repeat the procedure to the top surface of the wing. I then

hang
> the covered wing up to dry over night. I think the secret is to have both
> sides of the paper glued because it is then balanced. I can`t see a

problem with
> an under camber because the paper is brushed into place, but it might be
> advisable to apply diluted glue to the undercambered foam as well, I have

found no
> need to try and stretch the paper, just brush it in position, but you must
> hang it up to dry. Hope this will help. James


James,
Could you give us a weight figure per sq ft (or Dm2, etc.) of wing area?

John S.


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Old Jul 31, 2003, 04:07 AM
Rick Page
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RE: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from Rick Page <rick-page@shaw.ca> brought to you by EFLIGHT!

>The end result of the paper covering was excellent

Reynolds Freezer Paper is even lighter than brown wrapping paper. It is
plastic coated on one side, which makes the finish smoother and only
requires glue on the foam side. Being white it is easy to paint.
Only available in the US though.
http://www.reynoldskitchens.com/reyn...tion/products/
freezer_paper/index.asp

Rick.


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Old Jul 31, 2003, 04:07 AM
Edward J. Moore
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RE: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from "Edward J. Moore" <emoore@worldnet.att.net> brought to you by EFLIGHT!


Thanks Rick;
I get an error message saying I'm not authorized to view that page.

Do you know if it shrinks?

Ed Moore

> Reynolds Freezer Paper is even lighter than brown wrapping paper. It is
>plastic coated on one side, which makes the finish smoother and only
>requires glue on the foam side. Being white it is easy to paint.
> Only available in the US though.
>http://www.reynoldskitchens.com/reyn...tion/products/
>freezer_paper/index.asp




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Old Jul 31, 2003, 04:07 AM
Rick Page
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RE: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from Rick Page <rick-page@shaw.ca> brought to you by EFLIGHT!

>I get an error message saying I'm not authorized to view that page.

The line was too long. Try
http://www.reynoldskitchens.com/reyn...tion/products/
and click on Freezer Paper.
>Do you know if it shrinks?

Yep, but not as likely to cause warps. This fellow talks about using fabric
glue and freezer paper at the bottom of his page. The thicker glues are a
little heavier but don't warp and you only need it on one side of this paper
so it can end up lighter over all than brown paper and thinned glue.
http://geocities.com/hoppyfl/

Rick.


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Old Jul 31, 2003, 04:07 AM
Electricflyjim@aol.com
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from Electricflyjim@aol.com brought to you by EFLIGHT!

Hello Ray, no I don`t wet the paper before applying glue, I let the diluted
glue wet it.
James


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Old Jul 31, 2003, 04:07 AM
Electricflyjim@aol.com
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from Electricflyjim@aol.com brought to you by EFLIGHT!

Hello John, Do you mean the increase in weight by using paper and glue? If
so, no, but I will be covering a wing with paper fairly soon and I will take
some measurements and let you know.
James


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Old Jul 31, 2003, 04:07 AM
John S.
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from "John S." <jbswetland@earthlink.net> brought to you by EFLIGHT!

James, No I was thinking total weight of a paper covered wing (per sq ?)
I tried Kraft paper/thinned white glue over white foam many years ago and
ended up with
a wing that was even too heavy for glow power.
Thanks
John S.

> Hello John, Do you mean the increase in weight by using paper and glue? If
> so, no, but I will be covering a wing with paper fairly soon and I will

take
> some measurements and let you know.
> James




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Old Aug 01, 2003, 04:04 AM
Edward J. Moore
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RE: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from "Edward J. Moore" <emoore@worldnet.att.net> brought to you by EFLIGHT!


Rick;
Still get the error message.
The Hoppy site is very informative.
Thanks
Ed Moore

> >I get an error message saying I'm not authorized to view that page.

> The line was too long. Try
>http://www.reynoldskitchens.com/reyn...tion/products/
>and click on Freezer Paper.
> >Do you know if it shrinks?

> Yep, but not as likely to cause warps. This fellow talks about using fabric
>glue and freezer paper at the bottom of his page. The thicker glues are a
>little heavier but don't warp and you only need it on one side of this paper
>so it can end up lighter over all than brown paper and thinned glue.
>http://geocities.com/hoppyfl/



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Old Aug 01, 2003, 04:04 AM
Electricflyjim@aol.com
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from Electricflyjim@aol.com brought to you by EFLIGHT!

John, I don`t know the weight of craft paper, but as I said, I shall be
covering a wing soon, I`ll let you know the weight of a foam paper covered wing.
I`ll also give you the weight of the paper I use, It`s quite fine brown paper,
would you believe I bought it at a boot sale, a five hundred metre roll for
2. I`ve got enough to last me a life time.
James


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Old Aug 01, 2003, 04:04 AM
John B Swetland
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from "John B Swetland" <jbswetland@earthlink.net> brought to you by EFLIGHT!

would you believe I bought it at a boot sale, a five hundred metre roll for
2. I`ve got enough to last me a life time.
James

One of three things.
1. You are very young
2. You are going become a very old man.
3. You have no concept of what a "life time" is [:-)

John S.

P.S. If you run out of paper, let me know.


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Old Aug 02, 2003, 04:01 AM
Edward J. Moore
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from "Edward J. Moore" <emoore@worldnet.att.net> brought to you by EFLIGHT!


James;
I failed again in my second attempt, it warped at the TE.
It was hung up this time.
I think the balsa TE warped from the water content.

thanks
Ed

>Hope you don`t mind me chipping in Ed, but my experience with BPC has been
>very successful.


>but you must hang it up to dry. Hope this will help. James



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Old Aug 03, 2003, 04:02 AM
RStought2@aol.com
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Re: [EFLT] Brown Paper Covering Continued

This message from RStought2@aol.com brought to you by EFLIGHT!

They say good ideas seem to come about independantly by different people and
here seems to be an example of that. About 20 years ago I experimented with
covering styrofoam with brown craft paper and experieced some of the same
problem such as the warping as the paper dried.So I used a different approach that I
found to be much better.

The trick is to use water thinned white glue brushed onto the foam surface
and dried beforehand. Then if a light mist of water prayed on to the paper
beforehand, it can be ironed onto the foam causing the heat to make the glue
underneath the paper to osften and get sticky while also heat shrinking the paper.
Works like a charm! Best start ironing from the middle and work outward. And
take care to iron out warps as you go.

Also I prefer the use of the white craft type paper sold in stationary
sections of stores to brown paper since you can then finish it with a clear water
based polyurethane varnish for a nice finished appearance and no need to add
weight of paints. Or if you do want to paint, white is a better base color than
brown for lighter colors.

By the way, this same approach works equally well at applying most any kind
of paper from the lightest weight indoor tissue paper over beadboard foam on up
to much heavier posterboard over blue or pink extruded foam.

As for densities, they vary according to the type paper and the thickness and
type of foam used; i.e.-thinner foam sections have higher density than do
thicker ones. Thus I found that 1/8" thick beadboard foam with craft paper on
both sides had a density of about 3.1 lbs/cubic ft. whereas 3/16" thick BB only
had 2.1 lbs/cubic ft. Craft paper on both sides of 1/4" thick blue foam came in
at about 4.3 lbs/cubic ft.

How does this compare to balsa? Well, from what I have seen, most balsa has a
density of about 8 lbs/cubic ft. which is double the craft paper covered 1/4"
blue foam density. Therefore a plane that calls for 1/8" sheet balsa tail
parts would weigh the same if the tail made of 1/4" thick blue (or pink) foam
covered on both sides with craft paper. And since the fuselage sides need only
have paper on the outside, it could weigh less than one made of 1/8" balsa
sheet.

When scratch building park flyers with colored tissue onto 1/4" thick (or
less) beadboard, patience experimentation can result in quite satisfactory
results. Likewise when beadboard reenforced with balsa strip is used for large
madels there can be considerable weight reduction (as well as cost) without
sacrifice of strength. For example, I have a 90% completed 856 Sq In wing area
Taylor Cub airframe (including heavy landing gear & wheels) that only weighs about
30 oz.







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