HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 05, 2004, 04:24 PM
Enjoy Life B4U Die!
Buzz_Man's Avatar
United States, GA, Powder Springs
Joined Dec 1999
4,174 Posts
Question
Is This Ethical? I'm Desperate!

Hello,

As many of you already know, I have decided to get into the a/p business as a part time venture. Long story short, I just got my plane and camera working yesterday and I have very few photos which are "decent" or professional looking.

I am going to attend a business fair Thursday and I would like to print out and display some a/p photos that other people have taken using similar equipment that I have.

Of course, I would never do this without:

1 - approval from the owner of the photos
2 - telling all the potential customers these are photos taken by someone else who does r/c a/p - that the photos give you an idea what I may be able to provide - that I'm just starting my business and I don't have many photos yet that are suitable for display


I am in a very bad situation and I can't get a refund on the $205 I invested to be part of this business fair. I'm also working on my web site & display panels at the booth for the business fair and have only one day left to make my presentation.

If anyone would allow me to use their photos I would, of course, be happy to print your website on them or something similar, as advised or provided.

If anyone out there thinks this is "ethically acceptable" as I explained it, and you want to help me out, please PM me and we can work out the details - how I can download the photos & so forth. If you think this is deceitful, I don't want to argue, I can see your point - I'll go fetch the asbestos suit.

BTW - I'm starting out with a "buy it only if you like it" policy, with no up-front fees and a price-per-photo compensation structure. I believe this makes a difference in determining the validity of the course of action I'm considering.

Thanks,

Buzz_Man
Buzz_Man is offline Find More Posts by Buzz_Man
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 05, 2004, 04:37 PM
Brunswick, Ohio
BrunswickOH's Avatar
Joined Aug 2003
5,736 Posts
What camera are you using?? As long as they are pictures taken by the same camera I don't see any problems with it. All you have to do is title the picture with something saying what they were taken with and you tell your "clients" that is what you'll be using. You'll probably need some people to e-mail you high res photos as the ones on here are very low res to get them to post.


Jim
BrunswickOH is offline Find More Posts by BrunswickOH
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 04:42 PM
Suspended Account
Ocala, Florida
Joined Jan 2003
925 Posts
Ethical

It really doesn't matter what they were taken with, you have to give credit to the photographer and still get their permission.
John
Extremeone is offline Find More Posts by Extremeone
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 04:45 PM
Brunswick, Ohio
BrunswickOH's Avatar
Joined Aug 2003
5,736 Posts
"it doesn't really matter what they were taken with"???????? If you're using an aiptek and show prints taken with a 5MP sony that would not be a fair representation of what you can do. As far as permission from the person who took them I would say that is granted when they e-mail them to you.

Jim
BrunswickOH is offline Find More Posts by BrunswickOH
Last edited by BrunswickOH; Oct 05, 2004 at 04:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 04:55 PM
Registered User
dklassen's Avatar
United States, TN
Joined Mar 2002
1,043 Posts
Here's my take. If they are just for display and you are not handing them out or putting them on your web site I think it's fine. The deal is, you should be able to produce similar results for your customers. Don't show them photos of a higher quality than you can produce for them. That's misleading. Pick some photos off the net and lay them on your table (here comes the flames). Then don't use them again or use them on your web site. It's a one time shot and I don't see any big deal. If you want some of mine, you can use them and you don't need to give me credit for the shots. It's just a few photos for a couple of days, no life altering harm will be done. After that you can go shoot your own.
dklassen is offline Find More Posts by dklassen
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 05:02 PM
Abundantly deficient.......
CptMike's Avatar
Orange County, CA
Joined May 2004
723 Posts
Ditto


Mike
CptMike is offline Find More Posts by CptMike
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 05:07 PM
Registered User
ashdec87's Avatar
United States, MI, Detroit
Joined Feb 2004
9,090 Posts
Pm sent, you can use some of mine.

Ash
ashdec87 is offline Find More Posts by ashdec87
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 05:07 PM
Suspended Account
Ocala, Florida
Joined Jan 2003
925 Posts
Clarification

I understand that you could't pass off 5MP photos as something you could do with an Aiptek. That's a self regulating thing. As soon as you delivered the customer would see the difference. I was looking at ethical from a photograph copyright point of view. It is not ethical to use someone elses photographs without their permission regardless of what they were shot with.
In this case, he has your permission. Now from a purely business ethics standpoint, he has to deliver that quality or better.
Regards, John
Extremeone is offline Find More Posts by Extremeone
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 05:14 PM
Registered User
lvspark's Avatar
Walla Walla
Joined May 2002
2,639 Posts
Same here if you need some additional pics.
Just take them from www.rsnw.com/AP.htm you have my blessings.

More "vanity fair" and a shameless plug heh heh heh
lvspark is offline Find More Posts by lvspark
Last edited by lvspark; Oct 05, 2004 at 05:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 05:34 PM
Registered User
Upper/West Coast
Joined Jun 2004
20 Posts
For people who are trying to make a business of this it is a BIG deal to just take their photograph and pass it off as your own. Furthermore, if your client takes it upon themselves to visit the internet to learn more about this new fangled AP-from-a-model thing, they are very likely to stumble across the same pictures you took, which would undermine your credibility.

Even if you get proper permission from everyone, I think it is a bad idea to show off other people's work as an example of what you are capable of. It's a little bit like me saying, I am getting into fashion photography and looking for work. Pick up a copy of Vogue from your local newsstand to see what sort of work I can do.

I know you are out $205 but I think you would be doing more harm than good with this approach. Maybe you can just treat the event as a networking event, shaking hands and passing out (and collecting!) business cards. Leave everyone with the impression that aerial photography from a remotely piloted airplane is every bit as good as that shot from a full scale plane and much cheaper, and you'd like an opportunity to prove it to them.

Just my 7 cents

Cheers,
David
DCarter is offline Find More Posts by DCarter
Last edited by DCarter; Oct 05, 2004 at 05:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 05:52 PM
Enjoy Life B4U Die!
Buzz_Man's Avatar
United States, GA, Powder Springs
Joined Dec 1999
4,174 Posts
I use a Pentax Optio S4i, so I doubt there will be an issue about:
Quote:
Don't show them photos of a higher quality than you can produce for them.
Since another valid issue is the quality of the photo based on my photographic skills, I believe the "buy it only if you like it" policy covers that, along with no up-front fees.

Quote:
If they are just for display and you are not handing them out or putting them on your web site I think it's fine.
I agree though I do think it would be easy to mislead people by using other people's photos. Again, I think the "safety net" in this case would be the "you like it, you buy it" policy with no setup or other additional fees along with the responsibility I have of letting them know these are sample images from other people involved with r/c a/p.

MEGA-THANKS for those who have offered to let me use their images - this is VERY helpful and allows me to focus on the other stuff.

Happy flyin',

Buzz
Buzz_Man is offline Find More Posts by Buzz_Man
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 05:53 PM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,308 Posts
No flames from here but I agree with what David said. It's not just a matter of the equipment used, if you select photographs which have been taken by others using their own skills to obtain those pictures then, even if you explain that they are only an indication of what is possible, they are a bit misleading if used to illustrate your services.

You might end up being able to take superb photos yourself and be amongst the most successful commercial aerial photographers around- but you should get there by showing a portfolio of your own work, rather than anyone elses.

Brian
leccyflyer is offline Find More Posts by leccyflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 06:04 PM
Registered User
Upper/West Coast
Joined Jun 2004
20 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz_Man
I agree though I do think it would be easy to mislead people by using other people's photos. Again, I think the "safety net" in this case would be the "you like it, you buy it" policy with no setup or other additional fees along with the responsibility I have of letting them know these are sample images from other people involved with r/c a/p.
Having a money back guarantee means little to the client who needs some sort of assurance that they will get good results in a timely manner. They want to turn over houses as fast as they can, and I suspect they will hire that $200/hour full scale pilot with proven results before they hire the guy with the r/c a/p aircraft and no real proof they can deliver.

I'm not trying to discourage you from entering the field, I'm just saying don't make the mistake of going to this event and looking like a total rube by showing up with other peoples pictures. Treat it as a very expensive networking event, then go out and shoot some pictures for your portfolio. Mail copies of the pictures to all the realtors who handed you a business card at the networking event. Include a 'remember me?' note and a coupon for a free 8x10 blowup when they order $100 worth of ap services.

Just a few more cents from me

Cheers,
David
DCarter is offline Find More Posts by DCarter
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 06:08 PM
Enjoy Life B4U Die!
Buzz_Man's Avatar
United States, GA, Powder Springs
Joined Dec 1999
4,174 Posts
Quote:
Having a money back guarantee means little to the client who needs some sort of assurance
Obviously I didn't make myself clear - I'm not requiring any money up front.
Buzz_Man is offline Find More Posts by Buzz_Man
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 05, 2004, 06:15 PM
Registered User
Upper/West Coast
Joined Jun 2004
20 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz_Man
Obviously I didn't make myself clear - I'm not requiring any money up front.
I think you were clear, and I didn't read it carefully, sorry about that.

Please don't take these as personal attacks, they are simply opinions on a course of action that I feel would not help you in the long run.

David
DCarter is offline Find More Posts by DCarter
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who sold me this battery? (I'm dumb) johndreid Electric Plane Talk 9 Dec 06, 2005 10:15 PM
This is how I'm gonna do my Destiny. I'm Rick James Slope 81 Nov 10, 2005 10:47 AM
No packages this year I'm afraid. Frank B Humor 0 Dec 22, 2004 06:54 AM