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Old May 27, 2007, 07:25 AM
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Help!
6 Cell Thunder Power pack being seen as 5 Cell - please help a noob.

Hi,

Got three packs with my Trex 600. Had some issues getting them charged. Balancer would just sound continously. We phone some guys in the UK that deal with these units - they suggested the battery could be overcharged, and that we should use it for a minute or two, the charge.

This seemed to have worked for the one battery, however the other refuses to charge. Ive just noticed now that it measures 18.1V, however it is a 6 cell.

Could this be a new dodgy battery? Could it be 6 cell but extremely flat? Can the battery be recovered or should I return it (not easy - but can be done)?

Thanks !

Using TP 210 and TP 1010. Batteries are either 4500/4600 or 5000 MaH, not 100% certain.

Oh, at what amps can I charge these batteries max without any issues?

Thanks
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Old May 27, 2007, 08:02 AM
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Does the TP210 show it as a 6 cell? ( 6 red LEDs flash when first connected)
Are you using the data cable to connect the 210 and 1010?
The 1010 can be picky about starting voltages, but with the data cable connected it should know it is a 6 cell pack.

Pat MacKenzie
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Old May 27, 2007, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmackenzie
Does the TP210 show it as a 6 cell? ( 6 red LEDs flash when first connected)
Are you using the data cable to connect the 210 and 1010?
The 1010 can be picky about starting voltages, but with the data cable connected it should know it is a 6 cell pack.

Pat MacKenzie
Yep, it does suggest 6 cell by the balancer. The balancer, if connected on its own, just makes a continous audio tone.

Just connected now - for the firsttime - something else is happening. The yellow status light is flashing and the 2nd cell light is flashing at the same time.

Trying to see from the manual what this means.

OK, as im typing the status has stopped flash, tone is gone, red light is on though. Im going ot leave it for a while - I assume it might be balanacing?

The charger is not connected at present.
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Old May 27, 2007, 08:24 AM
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It now comes up with no status light, 2,4 and 5 red led and continous beeping that doesnt seem to end.
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Old May 27, 2007, 08:53 AM
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The first condition, beep for 5 seconds, is telling you that cells are under 3.2 volts per cell.

Red light flashing means imbalance over 0.2 volts per cell.

Put the pack on, and with the balancer connected to the 1010C, hit the mode switch until you get to cell voltage readout. I would bet you have a bad cell.

Contact the dealer or TP and have it replaced. I had a bad cell in one TP 5S pack I bought.

On any NEW pack, if the pack voltage is much less than 3.8 volts x the number of cells, something is wrong.
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Old May 27, 2007, 08:54 AM
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IIRC, the continuous beeping is for low voltage.
What happens when you try to charge it, and are you using the data cable to connect the 210 and 1010?
If you don't have the data cable and the 1010 says low voltage, then you need to get the voltage up a bit before charging.

The AF109 uses the first 3 minutes of it's cycle to let the voltage rise a bit for example. IIRC the 1010 has chosen a safer route of locking in the cell count right away.

Pat MacKenzie
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Old May 27, 2007, 09:59 AM
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Everything points to one bad cell perhaps.

When I connect the charger and the balancer I get a cell count / voltage error.

Is there a way to safely bypass the low voltage or cell count to get some voltage into it?

If I told it 5 cell and didnt use the balancer - could I get the voltage up enough to get it happy with balanced 6 cell charge?
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Old May 27, 2007, 10:40 AM
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Are you using the data cable to connect the 210 and 1010?
If so, can you cycle through to determine if there is a bad cell as Pincone suggested?

If you don't have the data cable, then you could do a low rate charge on Nixx setting, just long enough to bring up the pack voltage above 21.6 volts (3.6 volts/cell). It should not take long, a minute or two.
But only do this if you can verify with a voltmeter that all 6 cells are showing about the same voltage .

Pat MacKenzie
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Old May 27, 2007, 11:11 AM
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Yep, using both those with datacable.

Ill try and find out what cell is bad. From the connectors (small ones) - can I measure each cell there? Ill try just now - just trying to get some work completed in the roof.
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Old May 27, 2007, 03:28 PM
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My firmware version is 2.0C.

When I connect the balancer, the balancer then goes into audio tone non stop. It seems when this happens the charger cannot read it, therefore I get no voltage per cell readings. Going to try and measure across the various connectors to see if I can spot anything.

What would a full 5 cell measure when charged?
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Old May 27, 2007, 03:41 PM
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Does anyone know what I should measure on the small plugs?

I measure relative to the Black (0V) and get various readings, seeminly incremental, however the last two - yellow and red, give nothing in relation to black. This is probably the problem?

Whats the risk / chance of getting this sorted giving it some voltage as a 5 cell to get the voltage up? Currently reading around 18Volts ... I expect something closer to 20Volts when charged as 5 cell?
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Old May 27, 2007, 04:03 PM
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Are there two connectors, a 4 pin one and a 6 pin? ( Should be)
Black on the 4 pin should be zero volts relative to the negative power lead.
4pin
black 0 volts
white 3 volts
blue 6 volts
orange 9 volts
6pin
black 9 volts
white 12 volts
blue 15 volts
orange 18 volts
yellow - not connected
red - not connected

This is based on a no load of ~18 volts and all cells equal.

The connectors are plugged into Bank1 of the TP210 for balancing.

(The only 6 cell packs I have are A123 but they have TP connectors on them that work with the TP210, so this should be the correct wiring)

Pat MacKenzie
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Old May 27, 2007, 04:07 PM
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I use this: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCTZ5&P=ML to restore a single cell back to 3.7V
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Old May 27, 2007, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmackenzie
Are there two connectors, a 4 pin one and a 6 pin? ( Should be)
Black on the 4 pin should be zero volts relative to the negative power lead.
4pin
black 0 volts
white 3 volts
blue 6 volts
orange 9 volts
6pin
black 9 volts
white 12 volts
blue 15 volts
orange 18 volts
yellow - not connected
red - not connected

This is based on a no load of ~18 volts and all cells equal.

The connectors are plugged into Bank1 of the TP210 for balancing.

(The only 6 cell packs I have are A123 but they have TP connectors on them that work with the TP210, so this should be the correct wiring)

Pat MacKenzie
Same pins, think voltages are similar - will double check again now.

Thoughts on charging as 5 cell pack?

Just cehcked now - all voltages similar although the white voltage on the 6 pin connector shoots up and down. Nearly like a dodgy connector ....

How are the cells put together - is it a solder plate or similar?
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Old May 27, 2007, 04:13 PM
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If you get readings similar those I posted (please post them) then you should be able to bring the whole pack up by using Nixx mode at a low rate.
Just be sure to monitor it and stop when it gets to ~21 volts. It won't take very long at all. Leave the balancer connected while bringing the pack up.

Pat MacKenzie
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