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Old Feb 02, 2013, 08:43 AM
He who dares ... repairs!
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I had the same experience 57sailplane. I elected to stick with normal mode, though I suspect it would be ok in flight in avcs. And as Will mentioned above, I also found that certain aileron subtrim settings introduced a position offset when the gyro is turned on, in either mode iirc.

These problems aside, I am a gyro convert - it dampens the worst of the turbulence and makes your plane feel like its the next size up in span.

If, like me, your instruction manual was written in Japanese, then this link is helpful

http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/gya351-manual.pdf

in particular the 'Using AVCS Correctly' box on the last page
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 08:59 AM
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so dose the programed subtrim count? i have to have it way off to program my elevons in for landing because i kick these way up. if this is so then i might need to do some reprograming. man i am sorry but i realy hate the xp9303 its just a pain to program. lol

ONe other thing that i did not mention that i did not think was serious is that when i flip to either mode my trims change. when i go back to normal on the slider or gyro off the trim goes back to normal. this is without moving the plane?
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Last edited by 57sailplane; Feb 02, 2013 at 09:12 AM.
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 01:12 PM
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Info on my gyro system

I want to clarify some aspects of my gyro system:

1: It will work with any radio, but the telemetry features need the Hitec Aurora.

2: The data recording is done by the speaker box, which is plugged into the data port of the TX module, so there is no data recording with other radios.

3: The system does not auto zero on turn on, This avoids the flight hazard of an improper initialization. The setup for sub trims, gyro zeros etc is done with the PC link and supplied software.

4: It is the only system with speed sensitive gains, there are separate curves for pitch and roll. This allows the response to be optimized for any model over the whole speed range.

5: The control algorithm is designed so that the model's response to pilot inputs does not change as the gyro gain is increased, the only change is decreased sensitivity to turbulence. The model feels just as responsive at full gyro gain as with the system turned off.

6: The 750 us fast pulse format (used by helicopter tail servos and the new Hitec brushless servos) is supported, so one can use the faster response of these servos for enhanced performance.

For more info contact me at cocconialan@gmail.com or call me at (626) 914- 4415
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Old Feb 02, 2013, 09:25 PM
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57sailplane View Post
so dose the programed subtrim count? i have to have it way off to program my elevons in for landing because i kick these way up. if this is so then i might need to do some reprograming. man i am sorry but i realy hate the xp9303 its just a pain to program. lol

ONe other thing that i did not mention that i did not think was serious is that when i flip to either mode my trims change. when i go back to normal on the slider or gyro off the trim goes back to normal. this is without moving the plane?
Do the trims actually jump back and forth, or does it is it very slowly drifting in AVCS mode?
Ideally the trims should not change at all. You should be able to just do the
switch modes back and forth 3 times in 1 second thing to reset the center position to
account for any trims and sub-trims and then Rate and AVCS should
be at the same place when sticks are at center.

ian
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:37 AM
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ian,

this is what happens in hh, i put the roundish fuse on the table it will sit upright with the t-tail installed as it has flat enough bottom to do so. i have servo extension going to the airlerons with the wing seperate from the fuse. now i can simply rock the fuse once and it will rock back and forth a few times after i do this once or twice the ailerons do not go back to center they are off slightly and with each new rock of the fuse it just keeps getting worse. once i click out of heading hold they go back to center. if i set in regular mode there in no problem they always recenter.

i have reprogramed my remote several time now just bare bones no elevons or anything fancy. i reset the seros to as close as i could get mechanily then centered with sub trim wich i am only like 10 clicks off. the regurlar trims are all zero.

i think it may fly fine like this but not sure. may have to just us as regular gyro no heading hold. let me know what you think. later andrew k

ps has anyone tried the eagle tree unit yet. this will be my next buy if it works
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 03:14 AM
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With helicopters in heading hold the above happens as well. When you tilt the plane left, the gyro counters by turning opposite. When you wobble the sticks, you trick the gyro. It thinks that the wobbling has stopped because of the input that the gyro has given to correct the wobble. So it resets the zero point to what it thinks is the correct setting to fly level. This won't happen in the air when you try the wobble the sticks, as you are giving the plane an input and it behaves accordingly
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 04:08 AM
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57sailplane View Post
this is what happens in hh, i put the roundish fuse on the table it will sit upright with the t-tail installed as it has flat enough bottom to do so. i have servo extension going to the airlerons with the wing seperate from the fuse. now i can simply rock the fuse once and it will rock back and forth a few times after i do this once or twice the ailerons do not go back to center they are off slightly and with each new rock of the fuse it just keeps getting worse. once i click out of heading hold they go back to center. if i set in regular mode there in no problem they always recenter.
What happens if you just let it sit still instead of rocking it back and forth?
Do the ailerons very slowly drift off center? I suspect they will.
Quote:
fancy. i reset the seros to as close as i could get mechanily then centered with sub trim wich i am only like 10 clicks off. the regurlar trims are all zero.
Sub trims and regular trim are all the same from the gyro's perspective. If center
position of the sticks is not outputting center (1500uS pulse), then a HH gyro will drift.
I explained why above (and in many other gyro threads).
*Some* HH gyros (like cheap heli gyros) simply cannot function if you don't
zero both the trims and sub-trims. The GYA351 however, can be reset, so that its
center position matches whatever you've set the trims to. I'm not 100%
of this, but I'm pretty sure it was to switch from rate to HH (AVCS) mode 3 times inside
of 1 second (note what I said earlier about how tricky that can be with a slider or knob).
On my radio, I have mode/gain on a knob, and I lay my finger across the top
of the knob and quickly zip it back and forth 3 times quickly. About half the
range of the knob around center is a dead zone (Gyro off) so you have to
go full swing to get it to work.

Quote:
i think it may fly fine like this but not sure. may have to just us as regular gyro no heading hold. let me know what you think. later andrew k
It probably will fly fine.. but here's here's what happens if you don't reset the HH's
center position on the gyro itself using the procedure described in the manual.
It'll fly fine with it Off or in normal (Rate mode) with one trim setting, but when you switch
to HH (AVCS) it'll slowly roll one way or the other, which you can trim out, until it holds steady,
but of course when you switch back to Rate, it will roll the other way. This is
actually the way my old ACT Fuzzy Pro works. It'll reset the center position
only when it's repowered, so if I want it to match between modes, I have to fly with gyro off,
trim for level flight, land, re-powre, and then HH mode center trim matches Off and Rate center trim.
Because HH mode works so well though, I've gone half a dozen flights with it in HH
the whole time, and never messed with the trims. I just verify that the ailerons
aren't drifting at all, when the plane has sat on the ground a minute or so, and then
go launch.

I do highly recommend that you get HH (AVCS) mode figured out, because it's
much much more effective than Rate mode, across a much wider speed range.
Rate mode acts against both turbulence that induces a roll and the result of your stick inputs
that induces a roll (it can't tell the difference between them) , so the faster you go,
the less responsive your stick inputs, and you often have to switch to high rates on
the Tx to go faster. And at some point the plane goes too fast
and you get speed wobbles forcing you to turn gain down, but then it becomes less
effective when you need it for landing and such. In HH mode, it's only interested in actual
deviations from the desired heading, and stick inputs go through the gyro to request
a specific roll rate, so for the most part the stick response is the same at all airspeeds
(sort of like continuously adjustable high/mid/low rates on the Tx). HH mode can
still develop mild speed wobbles but the usable speed range is much wider. I can
literally go from launch to 270mph to landing all in very rough conditions, with a
single gain setting using my ACT Fuzzy Pro in HH mode.

Quote:
ps has anyone tried the eagle tree unit yet. this will be my next buy if it works
I'm using ET unit on a foamy FPV plane, so it's only gone a max of about 65-70mph so far.
I think if I put it on a DS plane, I'd only run it through the aileron channels, and leave
elevator out of it. It does really lock in both axes on my FPV plane, but I don't
really like the feel of it on elevator. I keep it in the loop, so I can use the auto-level (2D) mode
for a failsafe.

ian
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Last edited by Daemon; Feb 04, 2013 at 04:15 AM.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:34 AM
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You could also take a look at the Bluelight BL-3GRC Gyro. High end features at low cost. Here. You can see this RCGroups thread for more details.
Mark
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:59 AM
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well,

i let the plane set with all trims at zero subs and all. hit the three way switch back and forth plane zerode then let set. for like 2 miniuts nothing happened then click click click click it started turning like in a turn it would of kept going so i did the switch back and forth on the 3way again. it reset then 10 secounds later click click click. i repeated this a few times and did get it to stop for a little wile like a miniute than back to clicking into a turn. i think i may have a bad gyro.. ..

but it works in regular mode so this might be my start..


ian,

can the ET guardian work as if its in HH with adjustable gain if so this might be my ticket. i just looked at getting an act fuzzy and yikes thats more then most my planes. lol
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:24 PM
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Joined Aug 2002
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If it takes that long for it to start to drift, then don't worry about it. Just fly it.
I don't think you'll see an issue in the air.

ET guardian can work in HH with adjustable gain, but requires two channels, one
for mode select (Off, 2D, 3D) and the gain knob/slider. My suspicion is that 2D mode
(which uses accelerometers rather than gyros) could get very confused after a lot of
laps, so may want to set the switch to bypass it completely (just Off and 3D).

ian
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