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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Stan Myers
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[RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

I'm putting together my first electric 3.3 meter powered by Hacker 50.

My question is this: Do you prefer throttle control on the throttle/flap
stick or on a spring loaded switch(on or off) and why?

Stan
All outgoing email is virus scanned by Norton


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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
GLIDER DAVE
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n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

Stan

I always use speed control on a ratchet stick never on
a switch since the early days of on/off power
switches. My reason I like to have full control
especially on trimming flights were when in trouble on
approach you can use part motor like a normal gas
engine to control the speed of the model on the
approach and can part throttle on the climb if you
have the down or side thrust angles wrong.

Regards

Dave

--- Stan Myers <stanmyers@comcast.net> wrote: > I'm
putting together my first electric 3.3 meter
> powered by Hacker 50.
>
> My question is this: Do you prefer throttle control
> on the throttle/flap
> stick or on a spring loaded switch(on or off) and
> why?
>
> Stan
> All outgoing email is virus scanned by Norton
>
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane
> News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests
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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Dieter @ ShredAir
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n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders


>Stan
>
>I always use speed control on a ratchet stick never on
>a switch since the early days of on/off power
>switches. My reason I like to have full control
>especially on trimming flights were when in trouble on
>approach you can use part motor like a normal gas
>engine to control the speed of the model on the
>approach and can part throttle on the climb if you
>have the down or side thrust angles wrong.
>
>Regards
>
>Dave



That set-up is great when used in a glider without flaps or spoilers.
In LMR and F5B/F/J flying, we retain proportional flap/spoiler
control on the flap stick and operate the motor on an (ideally)
spring-loaded on/off switch.

Dieter Mahlein
http://shredair.com



>I'm
>putting together my first electric 3.3 meter
>> powered by Hacker 50.
>>
>> My question is this: Do you prefer throttle control
>> on the throttle/flap
>> stick or on a spring loaded switch(on or off) and
>> why?
>>
> > Stan



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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
GLIDER DAVE
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n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

Dieter

I also use Proportional flap on my models the throttle
is on one of the ratcheted ed sliders on my 3030 so I
agree entirely with you but go one further is all. I
guess what one likes is the best set-up like in most
things in life.

Regards

Dave

--- "Dieter @ ShredAir" <dieter@shredair.com> wrote:
>
> >Stan
> >
> >I always use speed control on a ratchet stick never

> on
> >a switch since the early days of on/off power
> >switches. My reason I like to have full control
> >especially on trimming flights were when in trouble

> on
> >approach you can use part motor like a normal gas
> >engine to control the speed of the model on the
> >approach and can part throttle on the climb if you
> >have the down or side thrust angles wrong.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Dave

>
>
> That set-up is great when used in a glider without
> flaps or spoilers.
> In LMR and F5B/F/J flying, we retain proportional
> flap/spoiler
> control on the flap stick and operate the motor on
> an (ideally)
> spring-loaded on/off switch.
>
> Dieter Mahlein
> http://shredair.com
>
>
>
> >I'm
> >putting together my first electric 3.3 meter
> >> powered by Hacker 50.
> >>
> >> My question is this: Do you prefer throttle

> control
> >> on the throttle/flap
> >> stick or on a spring loaded switch(on or off)

> and
> >> why?
> >>
> > > Stan

>
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane
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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Dieter @ ShredAir
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders


>Dieter
>
>I also use Proportional flap on my models the throttle
>is on one of the ratcheted ed sliders on my 3030 so I
>agree entirely with you but go one further is all. I
>guess what one likes is the best set-up like in most
>things in life.
>
>Regards
>
>Dave


Great, with an MPX 3030, you have the best of both worlds, and a lot
of flexibility. I have a 4000, and I still use a special
spring-loaded push-button on top of the left stick (I'm a pincher,
not a thumber). One thing to keep in mind is that many motors (Hacker
included) and controllers are less efficient at part throttle,
meaning they get warm. It may be wise to use part-throttle operation
only when needed.

There is a large e-glider contingent in the UK. Let me know if you'd
like me to help you get in touch with them.

Best,

Dieter Mahlein
http://shredair.com

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Albert Wedworth
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

Hi Stan
Al
You need your flaps on the stick! For landing control.
Your throttle on a spring loaded switch.
That's the set up.
Cheers.
Al
The Bag Lady
www.thebagladyal.com
bagladyal@earthlink.net
888-457-1550
Albert E. Wedworth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Myers" <stanmyers@comcast.net>
To: "Digest Soaring" <soaring@airage.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 3:05 PM
Subject: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders


> I'm putting together my first electric 3.3 meter powered by Hacker 50.
>
> My question is this: Do you prefer throttle control on the throttle/flap
> stick or on a spring loaded switch(on or off) and why?
>
> Stan
> All outgoing email is virus scanned by Norton
>
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"

and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with
MIME turned off.

RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Tom Rust
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

I have always preferred to run my throttle on the left stick, which when
available also runs rudder (my SBXC has a big rudder, which it uses to
great advantage).
For flaps/crow, I've generally used one of the available knobs - I use a
Futaba 8UX, used to have a 6, and also have a Supertef, which is a 7
channel.
I guess I must be an oddball - none of the xmtrs seem to have this way
available to set up easily - always lots of monkeybusiness with the
mixers...
I have used a switch for flaps, and its easier to use, but I like being
able to dial in the flaps - if its turbulent in the LZ, full flaps is
often less control, so I dial in less flaps.

--
Tom Rust
Nanochip Inc
7700 Edgewater Dr., Suite 665
Oakland, CA 94621
(510) 339-6263
(510) 339-9636 FAX
(510) 912-4662 cell
http://www.nanochip.com







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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Tom Rust
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

Thats a complicated question, as it depends on many factors.
The SBXC uses a Lerner motor with 6:1 gearbox which is optimized for
hi-V operation, and runs 95% efficient at full throttle. I don't have
the curves handy, but I recall it gets worse at lower power, not by a
huge amount, but ANY amount is a lot of excess heat to get rid of.
I went through 3 motors I burned up before the Lerner - mostly due to
poor air flow over the motor. This config on the SBXC runs at about
1000W and produces 10 lbs of thrust. But I tend to run it continuously
for several minutes at a time - not uncommon for much smaller motors but
you don't see a lot of over 1 hp motors running for this length of time.
I have two big air scoops on the nose - so far so good.

As for your flaps question - as I indicated I have never run it that
way, but if I did I would set max flaps as full up on my stick. Just
becuz Im used to full up being full on, whatever the function. But a lot
of guys make it full down, since it seems more intuitive to do it that
way. And it probably makes more sense from a "accidental" bumping
standpoint.

Another point on the throttle issue - having adjustable power is useful
in a number of instances - like when the power is almost drained. A lot
of batteries will still put out for a fairly long period of time at
lower power near the end of the discharge cycle - so if you desperately
need a little more power for a go around - running at less than full
throttle once the auto cutoff is kicking in will give you that edge.
Otherwise the auto-cutoff will shut off the motor due to undervoltage.
If ur running monster power - trying to do hang on the prop for instance
- you will definately need throttle control. Not that these gliders fly
real well hanging on a prop. My Spiro runs 18 cells and will just barely
do thrust>weight, yet runs for a long time compared to most high power
configurations. Small prop and tiny elevator - not the right combo - but
I have aileron on the flaps, so I can counter torque easily.
I built an experimental flying wing with humongous seperate inboard
elevons and a fat rudder with thrust 25 % over weight, using 10 cells.
Doesn't run very long but is whopping fun. With a lot of VERY careful
twitching I can hang it from the prop but it REALLY wants to do a power
on stall and spin - and its NOT pretty - it WILL NOT come out of the
spin UNLESS you cut power - which always seems so counterintuitive.
Makes a real funny noise, too - And of course Im always trying to do
this close to the ground - needless to say the nose has been repaired a
few times....


Stan Myers wrote:

>Tom, thank you for your input. We have a guy here with a SBXC that is
>electric. He uses a dolly for takeoff. Is a sight to behold in the air.
>
>Have you ever given much thought as to how much "under power" is at less
>than 100%? The guy with the XC has his motor working of a spring loaded
>switch.
>
>Assuming you have a std throttle configuration(down is off, up is full) when
>you switch to flaps where is max flaps on the stick?
>
>Stan
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom Rust" <trust@nanochip.com>
>To: <Soaring@airage.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 2:31 AM
>Subject: Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders
>
>
>
>
>>I have always preferred to run my throttle on the left stick, which when
>>available also runs rudder (my SBXC has a big rudder, which it uses to
>>great advantage).
>>For flaps/crow, I've generally used one of the available knobs - I use a
>>Futaba 8UX, used to have a 6, and also have a Supertef, which is a 7
>>channel.
>>I guess I must be an oddball - none of the xmtrs seem to have this way
>>available to set up easily - always lots of monkeybusiness with the
>>mixers...
>>I have used a switch for flaps, and its easier to use, but I like being
>>able to dial in the flaps - if its turbulent in the LZ, full flaps is
>>often less control, so I dial in less flaps.
>>
>>--
>>Tom Rust
>>Nanochip Inc
>>7700 Edgewater Dr., Suite 665
>>Oakland, CA 94621
>>(510) 339-6263
>>(510) 339-9636 FAX
>>(510) 912-4662 cell
>>http://www.nanochip.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"
>>
>>

>and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
>subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with
>MIME turned off.
>
>
>
>
>


--
Tom Rust
Nanochip Inc
7700 Edgewater Dr., Suite 665
Oakland, CA 94621
(510) 339-6263
(510) 339-9636 FAX
(510) 912-4662 cell
http://www.nanochip.com







Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Stephen & Janice
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

Thats a complicated question, as it depends on many factors.
The SBXC uses a Lerner motor with 6:1 gearbox which is optimized for hi-V
operation, and runs 95% efficient at full throttle. I don't have the curves
handy, but I recall it gets worse at lower power, not by a huge amount, but
ANY amount is a lot of excess heat to get rid of.
I went through 3 motors I burned up before the Lerner - mostly due to poor
air flow over the motor. This config on the SBXC runs at about 1000W and
produces 10 lbs of thrust. But I tend to run it continuously for several
minutes at a time - not uncommon for much smaller motors but you don't see a
lot of over 1 hp motors running for this length of time.
I have two big air scoops on the nose - so far so good.

There is one problem. Air in is great but you MUST have outlets. The total
outlets should be at least twice the area of the inlets. It also helps to
get air over the speed controller.

Stephen Madjanovich
Keswick, Canada


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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Art Mcnamee
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

Hi Stan,
I prefer to use the throttle stick as it's more like a full scale plane. Push the stick forward to firewall
it. Just like stepping on your gas pedel in your car. You can go any speed from full on
to idle or off depending on your adjustments.
thermals, Art

Stan Myers wrote:

> I'm putting together my first electric 3.3 meter powered by Hacker 50.
>
> My question is this: Do you prefer throttle control on the throttle/flap
> stick or on a spring loaded switch(on or off) and why?
>
> Stan
> All outgoing email is virus scanned by Norton
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.





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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:11 AM
Nicholas Wisdom
Guest
n/a Posts
RE: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

I haven't been following all of these posts, so this could have already
been mentioned....

I prefer to use the flap/throttle stick for both flaps and throttle. I
fly a JR8103 transmitter which allows me to switch between the two by
using some creative mixing and a switch above the throttle stick. With
the switch in one position I have full proportional throttle control,
and in the other I have camber/flap control. This setup does require
some forethought as to how you plan to fly/land. After a bit of
practice I don't even think about it anymore.

However in my perfect world I think I would prefer the switch to toggle
between flaps and camber control, and throttle on a proportional switch
elsewhere. But I would have to spend a few more bucks on a stylus, 10x,
Multiplex etc to achieve this. So for now I'm happy.

Nick Wisdom
Providence, RI

-----Original Message-----
From: Art Mcnamee [mailto:amcnamee@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:59 PM
To: Stan Myers
Cc: Digest Soaring
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

Hi Stan,
I prefer to use the throttle stick as it's more like a full scale plane.
Push the stick forward to firewall
it. Just like stepping on your gas pedel in your car. You can go any
speed from full on
to idle or off depending on your adjustments.
thermals, Art

Stan Myers wrote:

> I'm putting together my first electric 3.3 meter powered by Hacker 50.
>
> My question is this: Do you prefer throttle control on the

throttle/flap
> stick or on a spring loaded switch(on or off) and why?
>
> Stan
> All outgoing email is virus scanned by Norton
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send

"subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com.
Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text
only format with MIME turned off.




RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"
and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note
that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format
with MIME turned off.

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:13 AM
Rc-Model
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

The flaps (or butterfly) on stick is a best way to get controll over
landings.
When using throttle and high, current remember that partial throttle can
blow up the controller. While i.e. on Smile 70 6-18 I use
over 100A for about 5-10 sec, partial loading over 70A will destroy the
controller. When using throttle do not go over the nominal current of the
controller for several seconds. However I do use about halve threttle (to
get the remaining rest of the battery if needed) but only after the voltage
cut-off. It's accomplished by another switch on the transmitter.

Regards,

Czeslaw



> >Dieter
> >
> >I also use Proportional flap on my models the throttle
> >is on one of the ratcheted ed sliders on my 3030 so I
> >agree entirely with you but go one further is all. I
> >guess what one likes is the best set-up like in most
> >things in life.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Dave

>
> Great, with an MPX 3030, you have the best of both worlds, and a lot
> of flexibility. I have a 4000, and I still use a special
> spring-loaded push-button on top of the left stick (I'm a pincher,
> not a thumber). One thing to keep in mind is that many motors (Hacker
> included) and controllers are less efficient at part throttle,
> meaning they get warm. It may be wise to use part-throttle operation
> only when needed.
>
> There is a large e-glider contingent in the UK. Let me know if you'd
> like me to help you get in touch with them.
>
> Best,
>
> Dieter Mahlein
> http://shredair.com
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"

and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that
subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with
MIME turned off.


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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:13 AM
Brett Jaffee
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

I got a different question for the e-glider crowd...How much power-off flight time would you expect to get once the BEC starts cutting in. I'm currently testing out a small electric glider using a 500mA pack, and from testing it on the ground, I've noticed that once the BEC first kicks in, I only have about 15 minutes of safe power left for my rx and servos. It's even less time if I try and milk a bit more time out of the motor at lower power settings after the BEC cuts in. Is this amount of time normal? I'd hate to do a climb out, catch a thermal, then have the radio die 10 minutes later!

I suppose I could always use a seperate rx pack, though I'm not sure if you can do that with a BEC equipped ESC.

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:13 AM
Douglas, Brent
Guest
n/a Posts
RE: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

You should be able to use a battery,too - depending on your application,
there are times when you have to.

Somebody help me with the math here... the higher your cell count, the more
likely that you'll get caught short on flight time. The bec knows voltage,
and it shuts off based on that. As your cell count goes up, that voltage
translates into less runtime / mili-amp hours per cell: eg, you get voltage
from many cells that have little actual current left.

I checked Phoenix (castle creations), and they change the cutoff voltage
(up) as cell count increases- starts at 5v for default, down to 4 for
5cells, up to 6 for 7 cells and up.

Are you running a little 8 cell pack? 6 cells? How many servos are you
driving, and what size/type are they? If you can't change your cutoff, it
might be cheap insurance to add a small nimh pack to your ship, if you think
you'll be doing more than tearing up sky.

Good luck,
Brent

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Old Apr 01, 2003, 01:13 AM
Brett Jaffee
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: [RCSE] Question for you electric glider guiders

Thanks for all the tips guys. I think I'll try a seperate RX pack.

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