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Old Dec 19, 2013, 10:06 AM
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Martin Irvine's Avatar
Canada, ON, Kingston
Joined Aug 2000
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Mongster (for indoor pylon?) Video added

One of the guys in my club, Gord, (Flypaper here), suggested a simple Formula One pylon class for our fortnightly indoor sessions. 16" span, single cell racing for the Ultra Micro radio gear. No one is getting too worked up about rules as I think the venue will prevent stupid fast, (here is a video of my Heyford flying in the area we have:
Martin's Heyford Biplane Bomber Scratch Built (4 min 16 sec)
)

I have always liked the Mongster, a modified Mong Sport biplane. I have a 1/4 midget plan and a couple of three views so started doing a 1/12 scale model. Yes, that makes the span only 14" but its a biplane and 16" made the fuselage enormous! My guess is that we are more likely to end up with a parade than a race anyway.

I am planing to use a brick from a 4-Site with a single aileron servo and a T-28 torque tube setup. I have a P-51 motor and gearbox.

The whole thing will be made of 2mm Depron. Here is the basic fuselage box and the formed turtledeck. I carved a balsa plug and formed the foam in 3 stages in a 200F oven. I've never done it before so it took a couple of tries but it looks good enough to glue on now.

Martin
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Old Dec 19, 2013, 11:52 AM
Stuck on a rock
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Faroe Islands, Sandoy, Sandur
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Great idea! There are lots of planes to choose from. "The Air Racer" by Mendenhall is a great book as it has 3-views of most raceplanes.
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Old Dec 19, 2013, 01:37 PM
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It looks really tail heavy. Amazing details otherwise!
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Old Dec 19, 2013, 03:34 PM
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hope to see her flying soon! great video of the bomber!
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Old Dec 19, 2013, 03:39 PM
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Hi Martin,

That looks really cool! Jim Young has us doing some indoor flying near him in a 105,000 square foot dome.....

I'll be watching along as I have the indoor bug....I am thinking about a Top Dawg with AR6400 brick and P-51 motor gearbox. Right now thinking balsa but may try Depron....

Denny
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Old Dec 19, 2013, 03:45 PM
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Southport Merseyside UK
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Hi Martin
Your Heyford seems to have similar flying characteristics as our indoor Lancs and Halifax, i.e will suddenly nose up in a turn. We have come to the conclusion that it might be something to do with the twin fins/rudders if flying rudder elevator. We have changed to Deltang receivers and use motor twin steer combined with rudders. It still happens occasionally even though we have tried various cg locations. The new models we are building we are going to fit ailerons and see if that improves things. Otherwise great effort looks good and I hope you can get it to fly sweeter.
Eric
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 08:07 AM
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Canada, SK, Regina
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A Formula One pylon class is a great idea!

I've been contemplating the same kind of thing for our indoor flying. Something small and easy to build/maintain. I imagine the right plane could really scream around the gym and provide a little more entertainment than the usual slow flying crowd. Some of our indoor flyers have been showing more inclination to scratch build these days. It would only take a few simple ground rules (motor/battery size) and a design or two to get things rolling.

Lately I've been seeing more and more 'blow up' nylon decorative cones at out door events around the city. Something like that would be perfect for indoor pylon. A couple of extension cords and just set them up at either end of the gym. The fan blows them up and when your done just pack them up in a box. In and out quick without disrupting too much precious indoor flying time. I think something like a scratch built nylon fabric 'pylon' attached to a cheap floor fan might do the trick.
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 09:05 AM
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Kingston, Canada
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Going to have work to catch up with Martin. Was thinking of the Mong Phantom.
There are lots of guts kicking around from the UM planes. Why not put them to good use. To keep the speed down, we want to stick to the single cell batt. and limit the wingspan to 16 in. Keeping the rules to a minimum.
A few yrs ago we did have a fun pylon race for the embers and such. Great fun, and we did use those balloons on a string for pylons.

Gord.
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 10:25 AM
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Canada, ON, Kingston
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Eric, I was trying to stay with the simple, (cheap) set-up of the UM bricks. However, The yawing problem my require a little Delang investment. I would have thought that with the wing mounted engines, the twin fins would work better. I also have to wonder about larger tail surfaces. Anyway, that is for the Heyford thread. I only included the video to show our flying space and the need to keep our speeds reasonable.

I was going to build wings last night, but found that my baking form for wings has warped. Darn!! So my next step is to make a new one.

Mendenhall's "Air Racer" is OK to give you a general idea, but the drawings aren't very scale. However, it does give you a taste of what individual planes look like. A much better reference is Robert Hirsch's two volume set "Goodyear and Formula One Air Racing" 1947 -1967 and 1967-1995 (Wind Canyon Publishing). On the other hand, we aren't looking at FAI scale modelling here! It's the "20-20" rule of scale - it has to look good at 20 ft and 20mph.

Gord, I sure will like seeing those skinny tips flying - I'd be nervous about tip stalling. Would you camber the wings or just go flat?

Martin
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 10:29 AM
A.K.A sir Crashalot
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Östersund, SWEDEN
Joined Sep 2005
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I've made a large (2m high and 1.2m wide i Think) cylinder for paintball once, just out of a cheap, as light as i could find tarp (I think thats the english word for what You cover trailers and stuff with) and inflated that with 2x120mm PC-fans and a 12v battery and it actually worked.
So if one dont want to buy helium one could easily use this method.

I Think i got to try to make one out of domestic tissue.

A thought i just got too...
Using a brushed ESC and a servotester for the fan, one could use a 3cell lipo and not have to worry about draining it and also be able to adjust how firm the pylon would get. To not break it, or planes against it.

/Ulf
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Yes , was thinking the same thing about the wingtips Martin. Was going to make the wing about 50% wider for the tipstalling as well as Renolds numbers. When you get down this small there ain't much numbers left. I'm putting that one on the back burner and am drawing up a Knight Twister, more along the lines of what you are building. Takes a while as I'm using the pencil, ruler, calculator method. I downloaded Photoshop to see if I could blow up the drawing but it disappeared somewhere in my computer. Think I should stick with crayons.

Gord.
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 04:05 PM
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Faroe Islands, Sandoy, Sandur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Irvine View Post
A much better reference is Robert Hirsch's two volume set "Goodyear and Formula One Air Racing" 1947 -1967 and 1967-1995 (Wind Canyon Publishing).
I'd like to get my hands on those but with shipping they are way more than I can afford. I have the Mendenhall book which will suffice for a Depron model. When I first bought that book the equipment available at the time meant that a lot of the models would be too fast for indoors. Not so these days.
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 05:09 PM
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Canada, ON, Kingston
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Ulf - good idea. Maybe I should try a dry cleaning bag. I've go several battery cooling tubes from the nicad(!) days.

Gord, a Knight Twister? Are you going to put the battery in the tail?

Epilot, are there any specific 5 views from the Hirsch book you wanted?

Martin
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 05:32 PM
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Nicads--what'er those.

We were very fortunate to have Martin in our club back "then" We learned about button cell and sub C cell nicads ( I think)., How to rewire the motors for decent power for planes, what ESCs were for, etc.
Big thanks Martin. Probably wouldn't be doing this if it weren't for you.
Didn't know what you meant about putting the batt in the back till I did a Google on the Knight Twister and see there is a more up to date one with the long nose. This one, I think is an early one called the junior. More like a Pitts with the wing almost on top of the fuse. Looks like I maybe should have gone with the newer one as it looks faster

Gord.
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Old Dec 22, 2013, 01:26 PM
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Martin Irvine's Avatar
Canada, ON, Kingston
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Thanks, Gord. Things have progressed a long way from then!

The original Knight Twister does look a lot more reasonable then the later one - the Jimmy Durante of biplanes. Looking at the side view, I can't help think how nicely a Menasco engine would have fit, and how attractive the resulting plane would have been.

I've got a little done on the Mongster. The kinder are starting to arrive for Christmas so much of my time is devoted to seasonal things and dealing with the ice storm here. We've been literally skating on our roads. Gives new meaning to the term "road hockey".

I have my new wing mold and the wings are done. The ailerons will be on the bottom wing only for now - top ailerons can be added later if necessary. I am using the aileron hardware from an old Sukhoi. The undercarriage is recycled from a dead 4-Site, with Trojan wheels.
My computer has packed up - probably just a power supply - so I am on my wife's laptop. I'll try to get some photos of progress over the next couple of days.

Martin
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