|Sep 13, 2010, 03:19 PM|
Hey Mods, please make this thread a sticky!!! Lots of good info here.
Based on many accident reports and complaint threads I have read in my preparation for moving into EDF, I would recommend replacing primary flight control servo's on most entry-level and mid-range RTF/ARF EDF's.
Same thing for ESC's.
I have a 70mm Starmax F-5E V2 on the way from Banana Hobby and I will replace the primary flight control servo's (2X ailerons, 2X elevator, rudder) and ESC before first flight, just to be safe. This is not unique to BH by the way, it just appears to be good practice and cheap insurance regardless of where you get a plane if it costs less than $400-500 before power setup.
Hobby King has decent 9g servos for about $3/ea or you can go brand-name 9G servos from your preferred online or LHS source ($10-13/ea) - Turnigy makes goods ESC's, as do others.
Most entry-level to mid-range EDF's also appear to have lightweight retracts that don't hold up well. Go for digital servoless retract (DSR) or wormgear style (BH V2 on the SU-47, A-10, Mig-29 for example).
Lastly, you should have realistic expectations about speed, acceleration and climb performance as some others have posted - especially if you start with a more suitable first EDF (50's era fighters like F-86, T-33 or Panther). There is only so much that more battery or more fan/motor can do in a draggy airframe. Just like with prop planes or helicopters, most of us need to crawl before we walk, then walk before we run.
|Sep 13, 2010, 04:01 PM|
I would say dont be afraid.
Threads like this make it seem like a huge and difficult progression.
i picked up my very first plane in Jan. 2010 i had never flown any sort of plane prior to that point.
I got a BL P-51 in March.
And i got my first EDF in June.
I kept being told, # 1, i couldn't fly a 4ch plane in January.
well i did.
#2 I have heard that Ailerons are hard for a beginner. I feel that rudder is worthless for a beginner, and ailerons are just fine.
and i fly great w. Ailerons, and use rudder when i land, only, maybe.
#3 I have heard, and been told that its impossible for a beginner to build and fly an EDF.
w/ barley 9months under my belt as an RC pilot, I consider myself a beginner.
and i love both of my EDFs, and have yet to crash. (i had 1 hard landing when i tried to touch the tops of the grass @ my feild....)
but i have not yet found that an EDF is "BEYOND" my abilities as a beginner.
i woudnt touch a composite or turbine EDF @ this point.
come Jan.2011 that will change.
but for now, i love foamies. and wouldnt ever tell some one they CANT do something.
a better approach, and a total rarity on this forum,
would be an assisting hand pointing out key aspects that a newb may over look when they do.
when some one makes an impulse buy, and people laugh and say "YOU CANT DO THAT"
its very frustrating, and not helpful.
but should someone say, "hey, thats a tough starting point, but with my experience, let me help you understand these things....."
that would be awesome. But it just doesnt happen here.
SOOOOOO, maybe if all the elitists are frustrated w/ so many people asking if they can fly an EDF....
Encourage them, help them, and guide them. Tell them stuff they may not know.
Dont tell them that they will crash.
We all crash at some point.
so there is no reason to point that out to someone who is trying to learn.
People come to the forums for an oppertunity to learn.
however, on RCG, it seems that being a newb means you should do your own research and leave us who know what we are doing alone.
I almost got banned in my first thread because after people told me the was no way i could fly a 4ch plane as a newb,
i told them to take note that i already had, and dont want their opinions on if i can or cannot, because I had.
I guess i would say, do your own research. Dont depend on other people opinions as to what you can/should do.
if you have to depend on other people to tell you what to do and when, well, this hobby will suck for you reguardless of the type of plane you want to fly.
if you have researched your butt of and know everything you think you need to know, ask for help, but take other people's responses with a grain of salt.
they are only, like opinions man. not facts.
|Sep 13, 2010, 04:33 PM|
I don't think EDF's are much different than any other plane. In fact I flew jets (pusher and EDF's) for so long that when I got a 3D Hobby Shop 47" SHP I had a hard time getting used to it and sold it. EDF's are not hard to fly they're just different. They take time to build thrust and speed and unlike a prop plane there is no wash over the surfaces so slow speed handling can be disastrous. Jets are fun. You just have to learn to fly them fast and land them hotter than most other planes.
|Sep 13, 2010, 04:39 PM|
Joined Mar 2010
I agree. They are not that hard to fly, as long as you pick a sensible, less expensive one to start and figure on repairing it often. My first EDF is a HC-Hobby Mig 29. A lot of what was in the first thread is correct. The main challenges for me were:
1. Long take off rolls
2. Orientation (bought the gray plane, duh)
3. Realizing you cannot do snap maneuvers - everything needs to be slow and wide with jets, especially those with stock (<1:1) power systems. Everything is about momentum.
4. Managing the power system. Everything is at the limit in EDFs: batteries, ESCs, wiring, motors, fans. Most of the chinese stuff needs major reworking in this area to be reliable, including taking the time to balance the fans and ensuring proper ESC cooling on the scale twinjets. Batteries need to be good - 25C minimum with 35C and up preferrable.
5. Short flight times. This is not al-fresco flying. Plan on 3 minute flights initially, know where the plane will go andwhat stunts you will do, and do not deviate from your flight plan. Keep the plane in tight and always be prepared to turn back towards you.
6. My surprise was that these style planes actually glide well. I actually land dead stick every time.
|Sep 13, 2010, 04:50 PM|
I taught myself to fly on scratch build models.
I movel onto a multilex twister, dead stock.
Since i was used to flying a model with limited power and having to fly on the wing (something the twister does very well IMHO) apart from the javelin style launches (garuntees its up to flying speed) it was a good model to learn EDF with. It doesn't tip stall, and is smooth and stable (with the CG right, and correct throws)
a couple of things i'd like to add:
KEEP IT LIGHT!! (or at least the wing loading reasonably so) with a sitable section it will still fly fast, but will be a real pussycat when slowed down.
|Sep 13, 2010, 06:18 PM|
You are right...there are some pilots that will get a hold of an EDF and just tear it up! Others will take off and crash right away! The point of this thread is not to scare anyone away from EDF's...just take the right approach if you will!
|Sep 13, 2010, 06:26 PM|
I crashed my first park zone plane because i didnt read the instructions and reverse the aileron channel.
funny how the plane was great until i got a hold of it.
my jets fly great because i take my time and check and reinforce everything.
you have a world of experience @ your fingertips.
With resources like this forum, and a simulator, ad proper preparation and research, anyone can fly.
Literally, if my hamfisted ass can fly a toy plane, its w/in anyone's reach.
|Sep 13, 2010, 06:57 PM|
The perfect jet for noobs is the 64mm F4D Skyray. My grandson went from a Slo Stick to Skyray solo with only one assisted flight in between. He's 13, they learn so fast. Another 12 year old at our field flew my Skyray solo also after only one instructional flight. He had only flown the HZ Super Cub before that. After landing the F4D he maidened a PZ T28 by himelf. Good Stick. Both kids had poblems with orientation at first because it's gray on top and bottom. White paint on the bottom would be a good idea. I might roll on some white latex. The plane will do a nasty porpoise if you let it hit the nosewheel first, but it's strong enough to take some spectacular bounces.
|Sep 13, 2010, 07:25 PM|
If this thread even helps a few new EDF pilots I will be happy! Let me tell you a recent story: So I am out at the local park doing some 3-D flying and enjoying the nice weather when a dad and son show up with a F-15 (looked like one from Nitro Planes/Hobby Lobby). I can't help to notice that they look like real rookies. I land and say hi and ask them about the plane. "First day out with our new jet!" I ask what size lipo is it using? "Whatever came with it!" I ask "you need any help with a range check or anything?" "Nope...everything seems to be working"!! They were using the stock RTF radio so I told the dad to make sure that the control surfaces were moving the right directions and to be sure that he had it on the low rates. I even went as far as setting up a timer for them as I told him that size (it was a 3S 1300 is only good for about 3-4 mins per flight) and he said he was fine and would keep tabs on the time with his watch. I stepped away and watched from about 30' away. Dad hooks up everything and takes off...F-15 just makes it off of the dirt runway and heads up into the sky...doesn't look like he is in control at all...I can see Dad fighting with the controller and moving his arms as he tries to steer it counter clockwise...makes it up about a 100' or so and seems to get it under control for now...his son is really excited! On his third pass around the field it appeared that Dad over steered the F-15 in a left bank turn and she entered a down line spin....down and down she comes and then BOOM!!! Smack right into the ground! The nose was crushed all the way down to the fan...lipo was crushed but didn't catch fire...looked to be a total loss...and the poor Dad looked really bummed out as he walked back across the field with his son. Didn't say a word to me as he left. Now I personally have flown the F-15 and like the way it flies! Nice and slow and lands really easy! I have to guess that this was this guys first RC plane (maybe got it as a gift or something).
|Sep 13, 2010, 07:26 PM|
You are correct merlinfan! I got to fly one of those Skyray's and they do fly really nice! Not touchy at all and still fly pretty quick! Gear hold up good as well!
|Sep 13, 2010, 10:40 PM|
I do not know of any elitists on the board here. There are some people who know more than others, but, I do not see that as elitism.
I will still say that an EDF is hard for a first plane. I do not know who told you to avoid a 4channel plane for training. I learned on a four channel 0.4 trainer. Learning to use rudder with ailerons was invaluable.
To get back on topic: My first EDF was a GWS A10. With the right power system they fly pretty well.
|Sep 13, 2010, 11:08 PM|
holy cow batman! what a responce. lol. so you guys know i have flown d/f before, but not one of the new foamies. grated i have not been in the "air" for a little over a year (not including helis) but fixed wing its been a while. i can still aerobatics on the sim. yeah yeah i know theres a reset button. im just looking for a few opinions on a decent flying foamie edf. im leaning toward the eurofighter typhoon. i have loved that plane since top gear raced a bugati veyron against one. just a good looking plane. fast? no problem i dont have tracking issues (i also race cars dirt and onroad) so 70mph is not a problem for me. i have been in rc since 92 so i think i have pretty good control over what im operating. again thanks for all the responces. now for some money to come my way...then i get me a typhoon!
and yeah MODS! make this a sticky. please.
|Sep 13, 2010, 11:24 PM|
This wont apply to alot of people . But if it helps just one person...
EDFs have alot less power at higher altitudes. My first EDF was the Sapac F-22. Watched peoples video of this plane with the stock 3s setup and it was a great flier . Up here @ a mile of elevation the plane flew on the wing and took 250' or more to rise off the ground . I had to upgrade the power system .
So good batteries are a must higher up . I hate to say it because people hate them so much , but planes with cheater holes have alot more power up here .
|Sep 13, 2010, 11:39 PM|
The Sapac F-22 was a pretty cool model! At sea level it flies around nice! Not fast at all but very solid flyer...lands very easy even in grass!
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