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Old Feb 17, 2013, 10:33 AM
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United States, NV, Fernley
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Flare & Chaff Dispenser Ideas? Challenge

I saw a YouTube vid of the RussianJets scale model flying. At one point he deployed flares.

I'm building a fairly large EF2000 Typhoon EDF that I would like to add Chaff and possibly Flare dispensers. I want these to actually work in flight for scale contest. Anyone have any info or design ideas on this subject? I am also trying to figure a way of creating visually the vortex pressure waves that come off a jet wing in high G maneuvers. If we had an electronic smoke system that had tubes leading into the wing root and tips it could be triggered by a G switch. That is the easy part. What would be ideal is a simple chemical or similar that smokes when exposed to the atmosphere. Dry ice and the like is not feasible.

So all you boffins out in RC land get your thinking caps on and lets push the envelope..........

модель Як-130. Шоу (6 min 26 sec)
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:23 AM
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Flares, by their defination as a hot, burning spots in the sky, would not be welcome by AMA, let alone many flying fields with combustable materials on the ground. Bad idea. Chaf could be paper confetti or maybe rice (think bio-degradeable).
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:58 AM
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To true mate. I wonder if something like a sparkle bead or similar that would simulate a flare in sunshine? But it would still need to be sequenced out. I'm just after the effect but agree not to set fire to the desert.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 01:01 PM
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For flares, how about bright red LED with a small parachute to retard it's flight and to help in recovery? Led's come in differend diameters. Battery could be turned on by switch activated from coming out of it's launch tube.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 02:36 PM
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www.maxotronic.at/

Regards,
Markus
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 03:07 PM
My project: FAIREY DELTA 1
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Uden Volkel, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2003
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short circuiting small lipo packs
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Reynolds View Post
Flares, by their defination as a hot, burning spots in the sky, would not be welcome by AMA, let alone many flying fields with combustable materials on the ground. Bad idea. Chaf could be paper confetti or maybe rice (think bio-degradeable).
Same in Oz. Any type of pyrotechnics are absolutly illegal.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkx400 View Post
Same in Oz. Any type of pyrotechnics are absolutly illegal.
Only at licenced fields
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:31 AM
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Party poppers?lol stuffed with silver confetti.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 02:34 PM
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Your tip smoke idea has been done full scale. At Oshkosh one year there was a demonstration of the wing tip vortex by ejecting smoke at the wing tip. The airplane was a Hawker Sea Fury if I remember right.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for the feedback.... Yes, on full scale it is quite an easy solution. Also, on a nitro or gas model along with a turbine. The problem arises when trying to do it on an EDF based model without preheating a smoke generator fluid. I could easily rig up a can of freon, propane, liquid air etc that exposed to atmosphere will create the vortex effect as it expands. However, each one is a pollutant and also comes with some dangerous handing and is explosive in some cases. I was hoping to find some kind of chemical reactor to the air that would create vapor or similar.

Regards the Flares and dispenser. I have that figured out and it is quite easy. I came up with a spherical dispenser chamber that can be operated by a servo with a spherical rotary door. Each chamber gets loaded with those tiny glittery things that are used with beads etc. Using silver would do the trick and when the sun hits it you have sparkles. Chaff is done the same but using a larger chamber with strips of foil.

The way it works is on a three position switch. You program the servo to rotate approx 120deg for each of three positions and set the servo speed to slow. This would release x amount of the chambers loaded with your chaff or flares. So this would allow a series of F or C to deploy in a sequence decided on how many chambers and what the servo speed is set at so that it looks correct and also really cool. The only thing that I need to try is if the stuff gets sucked out in flight or if I need to provide a positive pressure for the chambers. Either way is a simple solution. The limitation so far is the switch or activation limits. Once proven I can figure out how to get a lot more goodies deployed and with more than three goes before running empty. To deploy a full load I can program another switch to just dump it all.

Any input or improvements on this idea would be appreciated. Now we need the vortex generator!!
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:15 PM
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I would imagine real Chaff would play havoc with our radio signals, 2.4 or 72mhz.

You try it first!
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 05:52 PM
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Bananna Hobby sells a Mig 29 that comes with that stuff. You have to buy refills once you use them.

http://www.bananahobby.com/grey-camo...5421-prd1.html

Go to the video section and fast forward to 12:27. He lights off the smoke bombs there.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 09:20 PM
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1320......... Okay I'll do that. No guts no glory. Its only going to be a 3000.00 model but I can replace it seeing that I'll have the molds. Usually takes two or three models being test before working out all the bugs.

C131.... Thanks for the info but its not the same thing. I think it is meant to be smoke for aerobatic display. I'm trying not to have things that burn up on board other than the Lipos and ESC..... LOL

Working on the design I've decided not to incorporate vectored thrust. The canards should be enough and I want it very close to scale.

See the enclosed pic for all of you airfoil experts. I would really appreciate any help on selecting the correct airfoil. I have visited the pages provided and must admit that I have no bloody idea what I'm really looking at. The pic I attached shows the wing dimensions. I expect the flying weight to be around 12-16Lbs. I will be using Etracts in the wings. I think that the upper section of the actual Typhoon airfoil can be used based on all the models that I have been looking at that seem to use similar if not the actual airfoil. However, the under airfoil seems to be different on many different models. Hope someone can help as this is holding up the build. BTW I'm not looking for a speed demon but am looking for a very agile aerobatic flight that will be very scale in maneuvers etc.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 10:14 PM
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Just back on the flares...
The smoke trail is the most visible part by day, especially once you're more than a few thousand feet away. Not quite the same suite as the Euro, but a cursory glance I couldn't find any...


A stream of cotton wool tied to an ultra-bright orange LED ball??

Re: airfoils, I'd probably have a look at the Nuerflugel crowd. You don't need to worry about the washout distribution they use, but the airfoil requirements are similar I'd expect. My knowledge of deltas was put to shame by Stu a few years back, so I'm not going to comment directly!
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