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Old Sep 11, 2014, 02:26 PM
efflux RC's Avatar
United States, CA, Santa Clarita
Joined Aug 2009
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HET Super Sniper 80mm EDF.......????

Hey guys,


HET is considering coming out with an 80mm Super Sniper (composite ARF).
This jet would be along a similar lines to the Habu 32, but at a lower price point.

We have been discussing the design, and my suggestions for a quality product.

This jet would be along a similar scale to the Habu 32.

I have built a few HET airframes my self and are well aware of some of the past issues. I have already conveyed suggestions to the effect of a built up or glass wing/stab, (not foam) hardpoints for the gear. and rigid stab/elevator assys.


I started this thread to get some suggestions, opinions and ideas from the peanut gallery.
So please, feel free to jump in and tell us what you think.

thx, Gary
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 04:26 PM
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IMHO before coming out with an 80mm Super Sniper, they should first right the wrongs of the past and release 70mm and 90mm versions that can be built and flown as is without having to re-engineer, strengthen and modify nearly every component in order to make it flyable.

Seems strange they would want to design and build a new one from the ground up when they have versions that are ready to go, requiring only redesign in certain key areas.
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 08:00 PM
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Having pushed your Habu 32 to 200+mph, you're definitely the guy to talk to about designing another sled, Gary. I'm glad they're talking to you!

--I think the gear hardpoints and stab reinforcement are good starting points.

--I would venture that e-tract compatibility is already a consideration, which would be an improvement over their air systems both in complexity and access.

--Gear doors, or the easy option to add them.

--What fan are they using for the FSA calculations? You know the rest! Smooth inlet, optimal %FSA in/out, easy access to mounts. Please, no 120% intakes.

--Full ducting, reinforced for 8s.

--No cheater, obviously.

--Electronics-wise, a pre-planned location for an ESC, with adequate cooling, would be a nice touch.

--Removable wings is a plus. Reinforce those mounting tabs. The 70/90s were poor.

--Adequate size for batteries.

--Better hatch design.

--Aerodynamically speaking, pick a good sport/speed airfoil. A lower aspect ratio wing than the Habu-32, I would think. Have they decided on the wing shape, or is it totally up for grabs?

--And of course, the elevator design, as has already been mentioned. Actually, make that the entire tailgroup.
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 08:58 PM
efflux RC's Avatar
United States, CA, Santa Clarita
Joined Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthawk0077 View Post
IMHO before coming out with an 80mm Super Sniper, they should first right the wrongs of the past and release 70mm and 90mm versions that can be built and flown as is without having to re-engineer, strengthen and modify nearly every component in order to make it flyable.

Seems strange they would want to design and build a new one from the ground up when they have versions that are ready to go, requiring only redesign in certain key areas.
Those were my first comment's when they approached me about getting involved with the SS 80. For the record, I had no involvement with the With any of thier other airframes.

I expressed concern about competing with the Habu 32. Well it seems that product will no longer be availabe.
HET seemed to be set on producing the model from thier mention of it to me. I offered give them input, build a prototype or two, and do a build thread.
I declined the offer to create a manual, as I lack the time and resources to do so. I do know someone who has created some of the best EDF Manuals I've seen though.

It's only my guess that they may be using a different manufacturer for this project.
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 09:08 PM
efflux RC's Avatar
United States, CA, Santa Clarita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha.MotionRC View Post
Having pushed your Habu 32 to 200+mph, you're definitely the guy to talk to about designing another sled, Gary. I'm glad they're talking to you!

--I think the gear hardpoints and stab reinforcement are good starting points.

--I would venture that e-tract compatibility is already a consideration, which would be an improvement over their air systems both in complexity and access.

--Gear doors, or the easy option to add them.

--What fan are they using for the FSA calculations? You know the rest! Smooth inlet, optimal %FSA in/out, easy access to mounts. Please, no 120% intakes.

--Full ducting, reinforced for 8s.

--No cheater, obviously.

--Electronics-wise, a pre-planned location for an ESC, with adequate cooling, would be a nice touch.

--Removable wings is a plus. Reinforce those mounting tabs. The 70/90s were poor.

--Adequate size for batteries.

--Better hatch design.

--Aerodynamically speaking, pick a good sport/speed airfoil. A lower aspect ratio wing than the Habu-32, I would think. Have they decided on the wing shape, or is it totally up for grabs?

--And of course, the elevator design, as has already been mentioned. Actually, make that the entire tailgroup.
These are good points. Some of which have been mentioned, but it's good to see them mentioned here, by you guys. HET asked my opinion, but I can only have faith that the important suggestions become action items.

Inlet FSA has not been discussed. I mentioned it being able to utilize the Jetfan 80 EDF. The FSA on that is less than the Eflite DF32. but it appears to work very well.

IMO, a lower wing aspect ratio will increase the tendency to tip stall. Adding some tip washout may be a good idea though.

The first protoype I build will not be a lead sled, but rather a 6s or 8s setup. The airframe though, should be capable of some Heavy weight speed, for the speed freaks. (not one of my Habu 32's ever suffered a structural failure. They are very well built )


HET has been invited to peruse and join in here.
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Last edited by efflux RC; Sep 11, 2014 at 09:49 PM. Reason: added text
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 10:19 PM
wannabe Jet guy
CRCJA's Avatar
Green Valley, AZ
Joined Aug 2004
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Gary,

Since I built two, I give you some of the same suggestions I mentioned on the build thread.

1. The landing gear blocks are made of soft wood.
2. The Landing gear blocks are only glued to the skin and need an internal structure
3. The wing, well it was for the most part strong enough, I only heard of mine having a problem.
4. Former in the Tail to hold the vertical.
5. The intakes are too BIG, while that is not a big deal unless you want to hit 200MPH.

Most of the improvements would be of course with the structure of the plane. Since I built most of their jets, the new 70MM F-16 would need the least amount of modifications, of course I might be partial on that one, but only the front landing gear blocks would need replacing.

Ralph


Quote:
Originally Posted by efflux RC View Post
HET is considering coming out with an 80mm Super Sniper (composite ARF).

thx, Gary
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 10:57 PM
My dremel tool has no fear
Mark's Avatar
Reston, VA
Joined Dec 1999
349 Posts
Gary

here is my modified Sniper 90

new stab and vertical
extended tail cone
rounded intakes
sharp trailing edges and hinged with the covering

still need to paint and finish it

I think the original sniper 90 is the right size for an 80, just need smaller inlets
and a tapered tail cone
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 11:49 PM
efflux RC's Avatar
United States, CA, Santa Clarita
Joined Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRCJA View Post
Gary,

Since I built two, I give you some of the same suggestions I mentioned on the build thread.

1. The landing gear blocks are made of soft wood.
2. The Landing gear blocks are only glued to the skin and need an internal structure
3. The wing, well it was for the most part strong enough, I only heard of mine having a problem.
4. Former in the Tail to hold the vertical.
5. The intakes are too BIG, while that is not a big deal unless you want to hit 200MPH.

Most of the improvements would be of course with the structure of the plane. Since I built most of their jets, the new 70MM F-16 would need the least amount of modifications, of course I might be partial on that one, but only the front landing gear blocks would need replacing.

Ralph
Hi Ralph,
I've looked in at many of your HET builds in the past. With your HET experience, I can honestly say, that you are more qualified to do this, than me. I haven't built any of the Snipers .
I myself was disappointed in the gear mounts (or lack of) in my L-39. I've impressed upon them, the need for quaility (simi;ar to the Habu) since the first discussions regarding this project.
I hope to see some prelim drawings. before anything goes to production, since my experience tells me that little will change, after the fact.

I'd like to be able to draw upon your experience in the future.
Thanks for posting.
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Old Sep 11, 2014, 11:56 PM
efflux RC's Avatar
United States, CA, Santa Clarita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Gary

here is my modified Sniper 90

new stab and vertical
extended tail cone
rounded intakes
sharp trailing edges and hinged with the covering

still need to paint and finish it

I think the original sniper 90 is the right size for an 80, just need smaller inlets
and a tapered tail cone
That looks great Mark. Thanks for your input.
As I mentioned earlier, all suggestions will be here for HET to see. I will discuss them in depth via email. After 5 years of overseas business. I try to convey the point so as little as possible get lost in the translation. Pictures such as yours and Ralph's are always a big help.
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 12:23 AM
efflux RC's Avatar
United States, CA, Santa Clarita
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Regarding the removable wings. How many guys with a 80 mm sized jet, do this?. Removing wings is a PIA (IMO) and many guys with 90mm jets don't bother to remove the wings. They (90mm jets) seem to be the right size to fit into most vehicles with the wings on.

If the 80mm Sniper were the same size as the 90, there would be no sense in a new airframe at all. Point being, the 80mm would be a bit smaller and less costly to purchase, and outfit.
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 01:08 AM
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United States, TX, Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efflux RC View Post
Regarding the removable wings. How many guys with a 80 mm sized jet, do this?. Removing wings is a PIA (IMO) and many guys with 90mm jets don't bother to remove the wings. They (90mm jets) seem to be the right size to fit into most vehicles with the wings on.

If the 80mm Sniper were the same size as the 90, there would be no sense in a new airframe at all. Point being, the 80mm would be a bit smaller and less costly to purchase, and outfit.
I have the Habu 32 and would love to take the wings off but it is too much of a pain in the butt to do so therefore I leave them on which limits what else I can bring to the field to fly. I would really love a bird with easy to remove wings so I could bring more aircraft to fly. Everyone does not drive SUVs with tons of space, those are the guys who don't mind leaving the wings on. Wings should always be easy to remove. The color and the ability to easily remove the wings were my only two complaints for that bird. Speaking of color, please provide vibrant color scheme that does not go all black in the sky. What looks cool on the ground is not what can always be seen once in the sky. Hopefully there will be more than one color scheme option.

Maybe take a note from the Carf Spark, one piece easy to remove wing.
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 12:21 PM
wannabe Jet guy
CRCJA's Avatar
Green Valley, AZ
Joined Aug 2004
1,977 Posts
Gary,

You know how to get a hold of me, if you got any questions, let me know. I sent you my number again just in case. With some minor changes in the critical areas, the HET line would make great airplanes.

Ralph


Quote:
Originally Posted by efflux RC View Post
Hi Ralph,
I've looked in at many of your HET builds in the past. With your HET experience, I can honestly say, that you are more qualified to do this, than me. I haven't built any of the Snipers .
I myself was disappointed in the gear mounts (or lack of) in my L-39. I've impressed upon them, the need for quaility (simi;ar to the Habu) since the first discussions regarding this project.
I hope to see some prelim drawings. before anything goes to production, since my experience tells me that little will change, after the fact.

I'd like to be able to draw upon your experience in the future.
Thanks for posting.
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 03:22 PM
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United States, FL, Altamonte Springs
Joined Jun 2012
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Well defined locations for ESC and lipo is a must and followed by the use of standard PZ or Eflite retracts sizes. Those would greatly simplify any build and expand your market to lesser experienced builders.

The beauty of Eflite planes is you know what electronics just drop in and work.
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 05:33 PM
Watt me worry?
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Florida
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Personally I prefer 90mm types.
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Old Sep 12, 2014, 05:36 PM
My dremel tool has no fear
Mark's Avatar
Reston, VA
Joined Dec 1999
349 Posts
My modified sniper 90 is the original smaller version

span 44"/ length 44"
http://highendrc.com/index_eproduct_...roducts_id=185

the new composite Sniper XL is much bigger

span 53"/ length 56"

that's why I say the original 90 version is the perfect size for the new powerful 80mm fans

So I would suggest
44-45" span length 48-52"
5-6.5 Lbs
epoxy glass fuse, w/rounded inlets and tapered tail cone with molded vertical
built up or foam sheeted wing ( sharp trailing edges)
airfoil wing (Mh43, Rg14, RG15, S6062, S6061)
properly designed stab elevator /setup separate servos for elevator and more sweep
vertical and stab NACA 006
set up to give excellent performance on 6S ( keeps cost down on ESC and battery)
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