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Old Dec 03, 2012, 01:07 PM
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ICE controller settings for F5B using "big ramps"

Castle Creations has made a major improvement to how the throttle responds to ramps in software version 4.02. When using throttle ramps or curves the previous versions had a pronounced step close to full throttle. The newest versions produce a nice smooth current increase that follows the throttle command quite well. See the attached plot from the controller log file. Here are the controller settings that I have been using that work well:


################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: Monday, December 03, 2012
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####

Brake Delay: No Delay
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Motor Start Power: 59
Direction: Forward (*)
Brake Strength: 100
Current Limiting: Disabled
BEC Voltage: 5
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
Motor Timing: 0
Data Log Enabled: 255
Vehicle Type: Airplane
Throttle Type: Fixed-Endpoints
Throttle Response: 10
Cutoff Voltage: (set to lowest)
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.2 Volts/Cell (*)
PWM Rate: 24 Khz
Sample Frequency: 10 Sample / Sec (*)
Voltage Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff (*)
Current Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff (*)
Link Live Enable: Disabled (*)
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 02:02 PM
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Thanks Steve, that's some good info!
The peak close to full throttle wasn't that apparent in my logs, using V2.16 just a slight bump maybe, but this does looks smoother.

Gerben
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:39 PM
Battery Puffer
Orange, California, United States
Joined Nov 2001
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I want to add the ramp to my HV 160 controller. Is the ramp in the settings you listed?
I'm running your 10s setup. What prop are you guys using?

Mark
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 11:00 PM
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Hi Mark,

We've been using three props, Sergey's 17.5 v3 "S", Georgi's 18 (version 4?, or latest that looks like an S), and the Team's 20.

The Georgi prop is the easiest to come by (buy) and it comes in 22 and 23 pitch. It makes mild set ups scream, and hot set ups silly fast.

Depending on your motor, batts, radio and trottle curves,
-the Georgi prop might an easy "go to" choice. His latest are strong, stiff, heavy and fast,
-the Sergey line is efficient and the current WC level "Gold" standard, but expensive and unobtanium pretty much.
- the Team 20 is undergoing a revision in materials, aimed at being the right balance of efficiency, speed and strength; my crystal ball shows US Team 20x25 V2.0 will be available in small quantities late Spring 2013. assuming the Myan Calandar end of the world doesn't occur, and that Georgi or Sergey will get the molds for retail production. (my crystal ball is sometimes wrong, so don't hold me to it).

I'd recommend calling up NeuTronics or SUSA, and get the latest gen Georgi.



Hope that helps!

Eric
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Last edited by epwierman; Dec 04, 2012 at 11:08 PM.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkF View Post
I want to add the ramp to my HV 160 controller. Is the ramp in the settings you listed?
I'm running your 10s setup. What prop are you guys using?

Mark

The ramp is actually done in the transmitter. Depending on the radio there are different methods to get the job done. What radio do you have?

Steve
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 06:37 AM
Battery Puffer
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I have the Aurora 9 and the prop I bought was one of your Georgi 18 x 21. Thanks for all the help guys.

Mark
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:26 AM
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Doing ramps on the TX is easy once you know what u are doing. Explaining it is another. Every transmitter is different and many can't do what is needed. Try my blog for a small write up on ramping.

For those who are considering what to buy for their new plane. The 6S capable budget controller I am selling includes a 1 second ramp in the ESC itself. No need to mess around on the TX. Unfortunately no 10S capable controller just yet.

I bet George would love to know how CC have smoothed the 99% to 100% throttle response out. Does it worry me? Not in the slightest.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmouris View Post
Doing ramps on the TX is easy once you know what u are doing. Explaining it is another. Every transmitter is different and many can't do what is needed. Try my blog for a small write up on ramping.

For those who are considering what to buy for their new plane. The 6S capable budget controller I am selling includes a 1 second ramp in the ESC itself. No need to mess around on the TX. Unfortunately no 10S capable controller just yet.

I bet George would love to know how CC have smoothed the 99% to 100% throttle response out. Does it worry me? Not in the slightest.
Unless you can put a multi step user defined ramp curve into the controller a transmitter based version would be better from the user stand point.

All you have to do is try the new firmware to see that it works for F5B--even if you don't worry.

You might as well move to higher voltage--it is where F5B is going

Steve
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkF View Post
I have the Aurora 9 and the prop I bought was one of your Georgi 18 x 21. Thanks for all the help guys.

Mark
The Aurora does allow a ramp but it is pretty limited in that it is linear from the start to full throttle. For F5B you want to have a step where the throttle increases very fast to about 40% power then ramps to full power over the next second or so. You can try it without the step but you will have to compromise and use a faster ramp rate then is ideal to avoid a too slow startup.

The newer Futaba higher end radios have a way to create a very nice throttle curve with a initial step.

Steve Neu
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:34 AM
Needs to do 52 legs !!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneu View Post
Unless you can put a multi step user defined ramp curve into the controller a transmitter based version would be better from the user stand point.

All you have to do is try the new firmware to see that it works for F5B--even if you don't worry.

You might as well move to higher voltage--it is where F5B is going

Steve
Steve, after playing with ramps for a long time I don't think it needs a lot of optimisation at the field. A simple ramp works well enough and it's actually safer to have it on the ESC. To view the results from a change you need a laptop at the field anyway. To flash a change to the budget ESC only takes a few seconds and does not require a more expensive TX.

I don't see why we have to move to higher voltage. I was one of the first to promote it and now I am actually going back to 6S. The cost is simply lower at this stage.

Maybe you should try one of my budget controllers.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:41 AM
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Here is what 60 euro worth of gear can do. No need for any fancy programming, just plug and play.

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Last edited by jjmouris; Dec 07, 2012 at 07:51 AM. Reason: forgot to add attachement
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:50 AM
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Joe--after having spent a lot of time with the Russians in Romania with motor ramp curves ramps and how to get the most from them I now think that the "simple" ramps are not going to get the best performance from the props. I can set different ramps in the transmitter depending on the flight condition--bet you can't do that with the controller based ramp! I don't object to you running the simple ramps since that makes it all the easier to beat you

It was clear in Romania that people are moving to higher voltage setups. There is really little or no difference in equipment costs for the systems. A ICE 200 costs the same as a ICE160HV.

Steve
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jjmouris View Post
Here is what 60 euro worth of gear can do. No need for any fancy programming, just plug and play.


Joe,

See the topic line--keep to the subject please.

Steve
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 12:21 PM
Needs to do 52 legs !!
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Steve, with all due respect. As usual you are about 1 year behind with your findings.

Ramps are old news, yes I can adjust between flights but real world testing shows there is actually no gain beyond a basic ramp. You are welcome to participate in the firmware design and have what ever you fancy.

The new CC firmware is nice but does not include a user programable ramp and still the hardware is less then ideal. It's just luck they fixed something that suits us, there is no real user feedback going into CC.

YGE 200 = 380 euro
ICE 200 or 160 HV = 270 usd or 207 euro
Joe's budget controller = 60 euro shipped

I think we all know where things are going if you do the math.

Happy Christmas.
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Old Dec 05, 2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jjmouris View Post
Steve, with all due respect. As usual you are about 1 year behind with your findings.

Ramps are old news, yes I can adjust between flights but real world testing shows there is actually no gain beyond a basic ramp. You are welcome to participate in the firmware design and have what ever you fancy.

.
Maybe in Joe's alternative "real world"---but if you were to talk to people who know prop design you would understand why it matters. If we did not have to deal with limited energy then this discussion would be useless--but given that we do-- getting the maximum power transfer in the most efficient manner lets you have an advantage on the field.

Steve Neu
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