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Old Oct 15, 2013, 07:21 PM
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Hi Russ,

Back home after a long weekend in Colorado. Got to go to the Great American Beer Festival, all expenses paid.

Glad some others are chiming in here, I don't want you to make your decision based solely on my opinion. My only point being I didn't want you to limit your options just because you were concerned about servo noise. The Hitecs are great servos and should serve you well, digital or analog.

The specs on the built in BEC sound like they'll handle the load without a problem. And I'm sure being a Kontronic, it'll be reliable. I still like to have a seperate source for power. And I also use two power leads from the LiFe battery to the rx. I have a background in full scale aviation so I am used to redundancy. I also find it funny that many Castle ESCs have built in BECs and they still say not to use on larger models.

Time to get building!

Mike
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mligosh View Post
Hi Russ,

Back home after a long weekend in Colorado. Got to go to the Great American Beer Festival, all expenses paid. ....... I still like to have a seperate source for power. And I also use two power leads from the LiFe battery to the rx. I have a background in full scale aviation so I am used to redundancy. I also find it funny that many Castle ESCs have built in BECs and they still say not to use on larger models.

Mike
You lucky guy relative to the Beer Festival!!!

I also prefer a seperate power back for the RX, this has saved me twice. Both times where when the wire on the main battery pack detached from the plug. Each time when the motor stopped I was able to auto back successfully.

I also like the LIFe packs but they are hard to find of late. Everyone seems to be out of them.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rotoraddict View Post
You lucky guy relative to the Beer Festival!!!

I also prefer a seperate power back for the RX, this has saved me twice. Both times where when the wire on the main battery pack detached from the plug. Each time when the motor stopped I was able to auto back successfully.

I also like the LIFe packs but they are hard to find of late. Everyone seems to be out of them.
Thanks for the comments, Rotoraddict. I certainly understand how important control power redundancy can be, so your point is well taken. My plan right now is to put a separate battery pack for the Rx and servos on the back burner, as I want to see how much room I will have to put an extra pack, and where the CG is going to wind up. So, , as I progress, I will have that layout on my mind .. for example, I may even use a separate pack for nav., landing and strobe lights anyway, So, as Mike says " Time to Get Building" .. so I lave something to put the lights in !!

Russ

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Originally Posted by mligosh View Post
Hi Russ,

Back home after a long weekend in Colorado. Got to go to the Great American Beer Festival, all expenses paid.

Glad some others are chiming in here, I don't want you to make your decision based solely on my opinion. My only point being I didn't want you to limit your options just because you were concerned about servo noise. The Hitecs are great servos and should serve you well, digital or analog.

The specs on the built in BEC sound like they'll handle the load without a problem. And I'm sure being a Kontronic, it'll be reliable. I still like to have a seperate source for power. And I also use two power leads from the LiFe battery to the rx. I have a background in full scale aviation so I am used to redundancy. I also find it funny that many Castle ESCs have built in BECs and they still say not to use on larger models.

Mike
Hi, Mike:

Great on the Beer Fest ! After reading spec sheets on servos for the last 6 hours, I'm now on my 4th wine. It is quite amazing how many "standard" size servos that Hitec has that are either the budget $8 to $12 servos, or the mounting dimensions just won't work ! My new servo of choice is Hitec HS-5625-MG .. it is a digital cousin to my original choice of HS-645-MG analog, which is what FR4-Pilot is using.

The specs are:
HS-645-MG HS-5625-MG
Operating V 4.8 to 6.0 4.8 to 6.0
Speed @ 4.8V .24sec/60* .18sec/60*
Stall Torque A 4.8V 107 Oz/In. 110 Oz/In.
Programmable No Yes
Metal gears Yes Yes
Dual Ball Bearing Yes Yes
Will It Fit Yes YESS !

As I mentioned to Rotoraddict above, I trust the Kontronik BEC setup .. but when the LiPo pack dies, solder connection at the battery / BEC plug comes apart ( AND, it happened to me too, fortunately as I was unplugging the pack .. how lucky was THAT ? ), the best BEC in the world ain't gonna help you there !?! Meanwhile it's roiling in my mind as I continue ever so slowly along. SO .. I'm going to order the servos and the Futaba 401 Gyro combo, along with some other 4x4 truck parts tonite.

Regarding Castle Creations ESC's .. It seems that it is beginning to be common opinion that heli's of greater than 400mm blade size are just plain beginning to outgrow the current capacity of the common ESC's. with the advent of digital servos which draw more current than analog, CCPM rotor heads where three servos under heavy load and extreme 3D stick slamming, the BEC's just cook. The Germans and Czechs came up with "Opto" ESC's that were rated at more than 50 amps, with NO BEC's, years ago.

By The Way Rotor addict .. the A123 situation is getting a little hairy .. A123 is a Massachusetts based company .. they were making the cells for DeWalt and many other tool companies. They got wrapped up in electric car batteries, and I read in the paper last week they are filing for bankruptcy ?!?

Also, most power tools are now Lithium Ion powered .. I think that chemistry is different than A123, so that may be what is causing the shortage ?!?!

Thanks to all you guys that are guiding me through the maize of obstacles, here in Heli-dom .. really appreciate all your assistance, thoughts and comments ..

Russ
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Old Oct 21, 2013, 07:28 PM
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...................By The Way Rotor addict .. the A123 situation is getting a little hairy .. A123 is a Massachusetts based company .. they were making the cells for DeWalt and many other tool companies. They got wrapped up in electric car batteries, and I read in the paper last week they are filing for bankruptcy ?!?

Also, most power tools are now Lithium Ion powered .. I think that chemistry is different than A123, so that may be what is causing the shortage ?!?!

Thanks to all you guys that are guiding me through the maize of obstacles, here in Heli-dom .. really appreciate all your assistance, thoughts and comments ..

Russ
Yes, I saw that also relative to the A123 situation. I am now planning to use 2S & 3S lipos and regulators in their stead.

I have been using some 3S lipos and basic regulators of late on the Swift SE on the flybar head, with the high torque/speed/quality digital servos and it seems to be working out well.

Next is to try them in an FBL configuration with the same high speed/torque/quality servos.
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Old Oct 28, 2013, 11:29 AM
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....... with the advent of digital servos which draw more current than analog, CCPM rotor heads where three servos under heavy load and extreme 3D stick slamming, the BEC's just cook. ......Russ
For sure. Standard digital servos draw a lot more current then their similar analogues. Fortunately, the newer technology BLS type of digital servos use brushless motors that are far more efficient then the standard ones that use brushed motors. These BLS servos have all the advantages of a digital, but only consume about the same amount of current as the old analoque servos did.

They allow one to have his cake and to eat it too.

Currently they are relatively expensive but with time, I am sure their pricing will come down.

That said, the 5625MG's is a much better choice then the 645MG's, specially if you ever want to convert it over to an FBL configuration sometime in the future.
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Old Nov 25, 2013, 07:23 PM
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For sure. Standard digital servos draw a lot more current then their similar analogues. Fortunately, the newer technology BLS type of digital servos use brushless motors that are far more efficient then the standard ones that use brushed motors. These BLS servos have all the advantages of a digital, but only consume about the same amount of current as the old analoque servos did.

They allow one to have his cake and to eat it too.

Currently they are relatively expensive but with time, I am sure their pricing will come down.

That said, the 5625MG's is a much better choice then the 645MG's, specially if you ever want to convert it over to an FBL configuration sometime in the future.
Cyclick:

Thanks for the comments. According to Hitec, the HS-5625MG digital servos draw 400 Ma operating, no load, and the HS-625MG analog draws 350 Ma operating, no load, which is really not a big deal. It's going to be fun to actually measure the 5625MG's under load, and with all three operating simultaneous collective.

And, yes, I'm sure the BLS powered servos will drop in price, just like power motors did .. don't hear much about brushed motors anymore, even in the R/C truck / car market.

My Hitec HS-5625MG's are scheduled for delivery tomorrow, Tues Nov 26, along with GY-401 and S9254 servo, as well as some other odds & ends. Although I know this is a subject of many opinions, what is the battery connector of choice these days ? I have most all my present stuff on Deans, but I was never fond of the non-mechanical connection of the soldered-only wires. I like the Anderson PowerPole crimp / solder setup, but the connectors are a little clunky looking. I may try drilling a hole in the tabs on a couple of used Deans connectors and try to get stranded #12 tinned wire through the hole and fold it 180*, squash it flat, and solder. I think that may be a lot trickier than it sounds ?!?!

Am planning on 5mm Castle bullets for motor / ESC connection.

Thanks in advance for any comments,

Russ

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Old Nov 25, 2013, 07:30 PM
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I'm using EC5's on my 6S packs

Mike
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Old Nov 25, 2013, 10:22 PM
Which shall it be, Passworthy?
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I use CC 6.5mm bullets on everything bigger than 3s. Overkill in most cases, perhaps, and can be a bit of a pain to connect/disconnect, but I don't worry about over-amping the connection!

Dave
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Old Dec 03, 2013, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MiniBoy View Post
Cyclick:

Thanks for the comments. According to Hitec, the HS-5625MG digital servos draw 400 Ma operating, no load, and the HS-625MG analog draws 350 Ma operating, no load, which is really not a big deal. It's going to be fun to actually measure the 5625MG's under load, and with all three operating simultaneous collective.

Russ

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Where the big power differences occur is under load, which, on a heli in flight, is constanl and is continually changing in the amount required, depending on the maneuver being performed. But even in a stable hover, much more power will be used by a standard digital, simply because now there will be a load on it.

A good way to "feel" the difference, is to take an analogue servo and digital servo of similar specs, plug them both into the same channel with a Y connector and then try to move the servo wheel on the analoque with your hand (induce a load) and note the sponginess in the feel. Then do the same with the digital and note how hard it resists....that difference is commonly referred to as "Holding Power" and it is what is much better in the digital servo and also what requires all the extra power from your power supply.
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Old Dec 07, 2013, 12:01 PM
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I have a hk 500 and i dont like it i thought about ordering a swift nx any reason not to get it
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Old Dec 09, 2013, 07:30 PM
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I have a hk 500 and i dont like it i thought about ordering a swift nx any reason not to get it
No, they are great on either a 5S or a 6S pack. The only recommendation is to do the heat treat mode on the skids to spread them to 8 inches from teh stock 6 inches. I found this insures you will not get the "dance" on shut down.

See the description in post #2 by Motor Rotor here on HF:

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=548036
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Old Dec 10, 2013, 06:34 PM
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Thanks for the info as soon as i get my money cant wait
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 12:51 PM
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I have a hk 500 and i dont like it i thought about ordering a swift nx any reason not to get it
What are you planning to use as a power system?
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Old Dec 20, 2013, 06:45 PM
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Heli comes with motor going to use a 60amp esc, 6s 2200 lipo
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Old Dec 21, 2013, 08:52 PM
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Heli comes with motor going to use a 60amp esc, 6s 2200 lipo
Did you order the $170.00 special that Heli-World is selling? If so, it comes with the 1300KV 550 motor, then you cannot run that motor with a 6S pack. It is designed for use with 4S or 5S packs.
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