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Old Dec 30, 2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sbstnp View Post
Go for zero, it will teach you good habits if you ever wanna go inverted. Or learn 3d.
Right now I just want to be able to fly it normally. I think I'm tipping it to the right again and again on trying to take off which I think may be due to excessive headspeed on the ground when I have zero pitch at mid-throttle (throttle curve is 0, 25, 50, 75, 100%), what do you think?
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
Right now I just want to be able to fly it normally. I think I'm tipping it to the right again and again on trying to take off which I think may be due to excessive headspeed on the ground when I have zero pitch at mid-throttle (throttle curve is 0, 25, 50, 75, 100%), what do you think?
You're tipping because you're not yanking it fast enough off the ground. FBL systems don't like sitting on the ground, get it into air as fast as you can. And put it 3 feet up, not 6 inches above ground, in order to avoid the ground effect.

You can do this:
1. Set FMODE1 THR curve to be flat, lets say 85%. This way you will ony use pitch to fly.
2. Set FMODE1 pitch curve like this: 0-0-0-29-58 (without travel adjusted) or 0-0-0-50-100 (with travel adjusted to 55-60).
3. Spool up, bring left stick to 50%. Now you should have constant headspeed and zero pitch.
4. Move left stick to around 70, do it in an interval close to 2 seconds, meaning don't yank it there, but don't be slow like an 80 years old.

Careful, when in FMODE1, you WILL NOT slam the stick down. You WILL use THROTTLE HOLD, be warned.

Of course, do all above only if you feel confident enough, I don't want you to break your heli because of my advice
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sbstnp View Post
You're tipping because you're not yanking it fast enough off the ground. FBL systems don't like sitting on the ground, get it into air as fast as you can. And put it 3 feet up, not 6 inches above ground, in order to avoid the ground effect.

You can do this:
1. Set FMODE1 THR curve to be flat, lets say 85%. This way you will ony use pitch to fly.
2. Set FMODE1 pitch curve like this: 0-0-0-29-58 (without travel adjusted) or 0-0-0-50-100 (with travel adjusted to 55-60).
3. Spool up, bring left stick to 50%. Now you should have constant headspeed and zero pitch.
4. Move left stick to around 70, do it in an interval close to 2 seconds, meaning don't yank it there, but don't be slow like an 80 years old.

Careful, when in FMODE1, you WILL NOT slam the stick down. You WILL use THROTTLE HOLD, be warned.

Of course, do all above only if you feel confident enough, I don't want you to break your heli because of my advice
I'm flying a clone, so you need to give me the pitch values in degrees and the throttle values in % of 100.

Also what harm if I slam the throttle from 50 to 70% other than the heli rocketing up possibly? Can I strip the main gear or something?
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
I'm flying a clone, so you need to give me the pitch values in degrees and the throttle values in % of 100.

Also what harm if I slam the throttle from 50 to 70% other than the heli rocketing up possibly? Can I strip the main gear or something?
Can't give you in degrees, sorry.

No harm other than becoming too squirrelly for you and crashing. Motor doesn't have enough torque to strip anything.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:34 PM
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is there any way to make the heli not spin around when spooling up in 3d mode?
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:35 PM
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is there any way to make the heli not spin around when spooling up in 3d mode?
Yes, don't spool up in 3d mode.

A heli this small needs very slow or rudder countered spool up in order not to spin. Or go brushless and activate slow-start on the ESC.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 03:37 PM
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right now i have a very dumb mode 1, -5% steady pitch curve and 0% - 100% - 100% throttle curve, so i can spool up slowly to midstick, then switch to 3d mode. was just wondering if there was a better way to do this other than going brushless
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by danthimself View Post
is there any way to make the heli not spin around when spooling up in 3d mode?
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Originally Posted by sbstnp View Post
yes, don't spool up in 3d mode.

...


That got my laugh for the day.

Thanks, I needed it.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 04:50 PM
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I think the reason most people want a "V" shaped throttle curve in Stunt Mode, is to maintain a constant Blade rpm as the Blade pitch is changed. For constant rpm, +/- MAX Blade Pitch will require MAX throttle; whereas, MIN (i.e Zero) Blade Pitch will require MIN throttle.

The RX Pot has a noticeable effect on the Mini's flight performance, especially when trying to fly in a living room.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 07:13 PM
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For constant rpm, +/- MAX Blade Pitch will require MAX throttle; whereas, MIN (i.e Zero) Blade Pitch will require MIN throttle.
Does that only happens in small helis or in bigger helis aswell?
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 10:47 PM
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Does that only happens in small helis or in bigger helis aswell?
Yes and no.

First, bigger helis run at much lower headspeed. Instead of 4800 or 5000 rhey spin at around 2700-3200 max. Having bigger mass means they have higher inertia and require motors with higher torque, so the effect is less visible than in a micro.

Second, high performance 450-800 class helis will use governors (even nitro helis can have them). The governor will allow for constant headspeed (more or less).

You can have a governor on your micro thanks to:

1. BLHeli (and a compatible esc)
2. CC10 ESC, but not for 1s lipos, 2 and 3s only.
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 11:22 PM
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Can't give you in degrees, sorry.

No harm other than becoming too squirrelly for you and crashing. Motor doesn't have enough torque to strip anything.
OK, no problem.

By the way, can these helis with brushed motors handle 5-7 degrees pitch at mid-throttle, or will that be too much for the motor or what?

That way I can replicate my 4 channel throttle response for a mid-stick hover, at least till I get more adept with 6 ch CP FBL.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 02:40 AM
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To replicate the 4 Channel RC experience, just fly in "Normal" Mode:

Throttle: Linear, 0 to 100%
Pitch: Linear, 0 to 6x% (WARNING: the Mini's Links bind with Blades Grip if the Servo's try to move past 6x% (I forgot the exact %). Binding is the #1 reason Servo's strip (or slip if the Servo Saver Mod is incorporated).

The amount of air-lift a Blade produces is controlled by:

Surface area (larger = more lift capability per given rpm)
Blade pitch (greater pitch = more lift capability per given rpm)
Blade rpm (greater rpm = more lift capability)

In "Normal" Mode, because of the linear Throttle & Pitch curves, the amount of "lift" (ie. altitude and speed) is controlled by the Throttle/Pitch stick. If MAX Throttle/Pitch stick provides too much speed that you'll never? imagine using, then I would recommend reprogramming the MAX pitch value(s) to a lower value and keep the Throttle curve per "factory" linear 0-100% settings.

If you're just starting out, and want to bang into things at a lower Blade rpm, then just about the only way to do that is use a larger surface area Blade (provided the Motor can torque the heavier mass). In this case, a FP Blade would probably be the best choice, because due to it's curved pitch design, it will provide the most FP "lift" at the lowest rpm. I believe one of the members (indoorheli?, or benmlee?) posted that they installed FP Blades on their CP and let their 6? year old fly it (after coaxial training).

I think everything except RX Pot factory settings are excellent for beginner to advance. IMO, "numbing" the settings is hazardous to flight safety. I like having total control at my finger tips, and having the ability to get the heck out of "dodge" at the "drop of a dime". I believe the key to learning to fly a RC heli is self control - don't "bite" off much more than you can comfortably "chew". Learn like a baby, first learn to pick yourself up, then crawl, then stand, then walk, then run.

I was going to re-post my KungFu "You're ready to leave (graduate) when you can walk on rice paper without tearing it" video; however, when I searched for it, I found I already reposted it for you two weeks ago.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 02:59 AM
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In "Normal" Mode, because of the linear Throttle & Pitch curves,the amount of "lift" (ie. altitude and speed) is controlled by the Throttle/Pitch stick. If MAX Throttle/Pitch stick provides too much speed that you'll never? imagine using, then I would recommend reprogramming the MAX pitch value(s) to a lower value and keep the Throttle curve per "factory" linear 0-100% settings.
I can leave the throttle curve at linear 0 to 100%.

Only thing I'm not happy with is having zero pitch at 50% throttle, as I'm used to flying the 4 ch FP at a little over 50% throttle. If I can get it airborne at 50% throttle, I would maybe avoid the right sided tipover problem I seem to be getting when I have hovering pitch at about 70% throttle. More throttle, more torque, more the chance of tipover while taking off.

So what would you say to -1, 0, 4, an intermediate value, 10 degrees on the 5 point pitch curve. This should let me take off at just over mid-throttle.

Thank you for your help!
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:58 AM
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IMO, Normal mode is "exactly" like 4 Channel FP.

I've flown many of the micro FP's and although I'm not very observant, I believe all hover around 60-70%Throttle. Now that I've started training inverted, I believe the only reason the RC Heli manufacturers program their FP's to hover near 60-70% Throttle is to train pilots to get the "feel" for CP. I "feel" no difference between FP, CP Normal Mode, and CP Stunt Mode when the Throttle is between 50-100 (except the Mini's flat CP Blades can "cut" its way through wind, and change speed much noticeably faster at will).

Zero pitch at 50% throttle is Stunt Mode (not Normal Mode). As was mentioned earlier, it is not recommended to take off in Stunt Mode, and if you're just starting and not comfortable with FP, then it is probably recommended to only fly in Normal Mode until you feel very comfortable with Normal Mode. IMO, the only pilot noticeable differences between Normal and Stunt in the upright flight position is Normal allows a slightly lower head speed (i.e. sounds slightly less intimidating, and causes slightly less crash damage), and Normal allows the BAD habit of slamming the Throttle stick all the way down during a "spaz" attack without causing damage. As was mentioned in a prior post, if you ever want to learn to fly inverted (real CP), the sooner you learn to acquire the reflex habit of using TH (Throttle Hold), the sooner you'll reduce crash damage. IMO with the Mini, if you fly outdoor over grass, and you have the ability to use TH atleast 2 seconds before an impact, your chance of not breaking something is almost 100%.

AFAIK, nothing can he done about the heli wanting to tip left during take off. When I first started, that was my #1 crash scenario. AFAIK there are only two ways to over come the tipping:

1) the easiest method (and IMO best newbie advice) was mentioned before: find the most open (wind free) space you can afford, and use Throttle stick to just "punch" the heli up to 3 or more feet high and then take control from there - I know it's scary forcing yourself to keep your "eyes closed", then all at once having to taking over the controls in mid air - ESPECIALLY if there is something wrong with the heli that won't let it hover as well as it is capable of. Even if nothing is wrong with the heli, for people that "spaz" easily, it takes "balls of steel". I can't tell you how to get them, they just have to "grow on you". My advice for someone first starting out, that doesn't want to learn at the school of hard knocks, is to first team up with an experienced RC heli flyer, and let them first launch the heli in the air into a hover, then have them give you the control and have you gently move it tail-in a few inches in all four directions to let you get a feel for how it responds to stick commands. I believe my biggest problem when I was new, was wanting/trying to "peel the paint" off every wall in every possible direction. The day I slowed down to a crawl was the day I made the fastest progress. Just to make certain you know how important I think method of training is, I'm going to re-post the link to my KungFu post just to get this point across: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...x#post23530876

2) with enough practice (I recommend only practicing in the air at first), you'll get so comfortable at barely nudging the sticks within the correct split second, that you'll be able to expertly give it just the right amount of stick at the exact time to do a scale take off. IMO, trying to do scale take-off before you can fly is like playing Russian Roulette with a gun almost fully loaded (i.e. there isn't enough time to hit TH before a possible blade impact when you're on the ground, so IMO it is better to crash from a few feet up (where there's enough time to hit TH), then it is to crash at full rpm on the ground).

BTW, a properly functioning FBL heli is easier to "take out of the box" and fly than a FB heli. The FB heli most often had to be manually "trimmed" in the air before it could hover in one spot. IMO that was the most difficult thing to do!!! Comparatively speaking, almost anything else afterwards was a "walk in the park", until I got inverted.

I normally don't give Throttle, Pitch, D/R, or Expo advice because I seem to be have the minority opinion. So far, I've always preferred 100% everything - even when I was a brand new-bie. I even have the RX Pot set to the lowest Gyro setting, and would have no problem recommending that setting to anyone past the hovering stage of training.

I don't understand what you were referring to when you posted "-1, 0, 4". I forgot if you were the one that has been posting in this thread, but has a V911? If so, then I'd probably have difficulty trying to give advice using V911? TX "language".

I prefer openly giving advice in the thread. This way if I give bad advice, someone else is able to make a correction and offer better advice and/or opinion. However, if you're brand new, and due to my lack of efficient communication skills, it might be faster for the both of us to talk voice. It might not be apparent from reading my posts, but I really don't like typing much! If you're in the US, I can call you for free.

IMO, learning to properly inspect, troubleshoot, and set up a heli, is probably one of the most important things to learn. I believe the smoother and crisper a heli flies, the easier it is to fly. The more wobbly a heli is, the more unpredictable it will be. A newbie needs all the help he can get; however, there is a law of diminishing returns (i.e. if you're going to crash one second later, what is the point of fine tuning everything?)
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