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Old Oct 25, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 11:54 AM
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United States, IL, New Lenox
Joined Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by Brutus1967 View Post
Gents....


@ Whitehedr:

maybe it is a little bit obvious remark from my side, but it is highly reccomendable to fly somewhere, where you are least likely to be distracted, as flying helicopters does seriously claim your undiluted attention....

Brgds, Bert
Could not agree more with you.

Unless you are there by yourself I think the flying field is probably the place with the most distractions. You can have multple aircraft in the air and lots of people milling around behind you engaged in multiple conversations, some bordering on shouting. I have seen guys walk up on fellow pilots while they were flying and try to engage them in conversation.

RWW
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 12:05 PM
Complete RC Idiot Savant
The Netherlands
Joined Nov 2009
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Originally Posted by whitehedr View Post
Could not agree more with you.

Unless you are there by yourself I think the flying field is probably the place with the most distractions. You can have multple aircraft in the air and lots of people milling around behind you engaged in multiple conversations, some bordering on shouting. I have seen guys walk up on fellow pilots while they were flying and try to engage them in conversation.

RWW
It is a bit depending on what you find distracting....
Where I fly, it's all helicopters (it's an RC flight school actually) and everybody knows how to behave on the field.

For me, the distraction is not in what is going on around me, but in the fact that on the street, people do not know what is safe and what not with regard to helicopters. On the flying field they are. So whatever happens on the flying field does not distract me the least; I have faith that the other guys know what they are doing, and if not, there is always at least one other instructor keeping an eye on things from the pits.
On the street however, EVERYTHING is a distraction, because I cannot trust whoever it might be, to do the clever thing....

If you look at it that way, the flying field is MUCH safer....

Brgds, Bert
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehedr View Post

Unless you are there by yourself I think the flying field is probably the place with the most distractions. You can have multple aircraft in the air and lots of people milling around behind you engaged in multiple conversations, some bordering on shouting. I have seen guys walk up on fellow pilots while they were flying and try to engage them in conversation.

RWW
Here's a google view of where I used to fly planks. I won't name the field because I haven't flown there for years and rules and/or heli locations may have changed.
At the time, we had two members who flew heli. They did 3D in that 35' area between the heli pad and runway. If they flew circuits they flew out with the planks but had to stand back behind the heli pad. And right behind the heli pilot is a long row of workbenches where at least one plank guy is almost always adjusting the mixture on a nitro.
Both heli pilots would kinda warn the rest of us "I'm gonna fly my heli when Joe is done flying" so we could decide if we wanted to stand in a pilot box whlie he was doing 3D, and most of us had no problem giving him the field for 10 minutes or so.
When I started learning heli it never crossed my mind to rejoin the club and try to learn there.
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Last edited by karlik; Oct 25, 2012 at 01:09 PM.
Old Nov 16, 2012, 05:49 AM
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CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
2,076 Posts
Want to keep this thread going - too easy to get diverted off course and too easy for beginners to get on the wrong track. Anyone can fly - all you have to do is keep it in the air. But precision take-off and landings and maintaining a constant hover and turning the nose and doing very slow figure 8's and circles - is a far cry from zigging and zagging and bobbing and flipping like a humming bird on crack. Just because collective-pitch helicopters can fly 3D doesn't mean you have to or even want to. Flying an RC helicopter is very much like flying the kind you fly in - except RC helicopters are more difficult to fly. You may even find flying like the real thing may lead you to trying the real thing - a bit more expensive than RC helicopters, but without the RC, an experience that you will never forget and could even become more than a hobby. It takes many hours of training and practice to learn how to fly. Be patient - that's the most difficult part of learning. Have a great flight!!

captJac
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 08:48 PM
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Joined Nov 2012
8 Posts
Hi CapsJac and others members:

My name is fher from puerto rico, im very very new to the rc helicopter, i have 3 trex 450 clon, one x525 quadcopet and 2 dh 9116, im in the hobby like 10 years but in th helis like 4 months, i read the entire post but have several question before i set one of my 450 to the scale world(also i not like much the 3d stuff, but have one heli set for that, never fly it)

My numbers:

3500 kv outrunner
2200mha
mechanical pitch -11 to 11
flybarless tarot zyx-s

Questions:

1- What motor pinion i need to use with the flat 80% TC? or what head speed is good for 450 scale?

2-How many cyclic pitch degree is good? 6*, 5*???

3- For the 450 what pitch curve is good? in the post i read -2/3/8, -2/4/7 and others

4-How much D/R? if any

5-How much expo for cyclic and rudder??

I know are much question, and most of the question have personal tastes, but i like to know your preferencences and test it in my heli, thanks again, and by the way nice nice post, we need most post like this, No all rc pilot like the 3D stuff
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 07:03 AM
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CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
2,076 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FherPR View Post
several question before i set one of my 450 to the scale world.
1- What motor pinion i need to use with the flat 80% TC? or what head speed is good for 450 scale?
Answer - the standard motor pinion (11T) provides adequate head speed and torque using an 80% TC. From a 2200 ma battery - you should get 6-7 minutes of flight time without overheating the motor or ESC. As a precaution (and a much needed deep breath exercise) - I take a 30 second breather after 3 minutes of concentrated flying.


2-How many cyclic pitch degree is good? 6*, 5*???
Answer - depends on your skill level - type of flying you want to do - and how steady your hand is. For training I set the swash-mix for 60% on the aileron-elevator-pitch. The higher the number the more sensitive the cyclic becomes.


3- For the 450 what pitch curve is good? in the post i read -2/3/8, -2/4/7 and others.
Answer - with the resolution and measurement error of a pitch gauge - those numbers will yield about the same performance. I use a linear pitch curve with center stick (50% collective) at 3 degrees. This makes the heli light on the skids and very close to lift off. The (-2 degrees) is to get it back on the ground if there is an updraft. The 7 or 8 degrees will give you plenty of climb speed if you need it.

4-How much D/R? if any
Answer - dual-rate is used when you want to switch the sensitivity of your cycle while you are flying. I seldom use it other than setting the expo value for the cyclic and rudder - which is your next question.


5-How much expo for cyclic and rudder??
Answer - definitely this is a person preference again depending on all the factors defined in question 2. I find 25% is about right for the cyclic. More than that it is too "sluggish" - less than 20% I tend to over-control. Rudder is the only exception - it feels better when it is linear (expo => off).

Last comment - every heli has it's own characteristics - some good - some not so good. The only way to know what's the best setting is trial and error. Eventually (more error than trial) - you will get it dialed in where it just feels good. If doesn't seem to want to ever dial in - you may need some mechanical adjustments and tweaks - or some more time on the simulator. Most importantly - I keep saying this to myself every time I fly but sometimes I don't listen - "take it slow and easy" - especially when training something new. It's that "I can do that" impulse that gets you every time!! Have a great training!

captJac
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 09:51 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2012
8 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptJac View Post
1- What motor pinion i need to use with the flat 80% TC? or what head speed is good for 450 scale?
Answer - the standard motor pinion (11T) provides adequate head speed and torque using an 80% TC. From a 2200 ma battery - you should get 6-7 minutes of flight time without overheating the motor or ESC. As a precaution (and a much needed deep breath exercise) - I take a 30 second breather after 3 minutes of concentrated flying.


2-How many cyclic pitch degree is good? 6*, 5*???
Answer - depends on your skill level - type of flying you want to do - and how steady your hand is. For training I set the swash-mix for 60% on the aileron-elevator-pitch. The higher the number the more sensitive the cyclic becomes.


3- For the 450 what pitch curve is good? in the post i read -2/3/8, -2/4/7 and others.
Answer - with the resolution and measurement error of a pitch gauge - those numbers will yield about the same performance. I use a linear pitch curve with center stick (50% collective) at 3 degrees. This makes the heli light on the skids and very close to lift off. The (-2 degrees) is to get it back on the ground if there is an updraft. The 7 or 8 degrees will give you plenty of climb speed if you need it.

4-How much D/R? if any
Answer - dual-rate is used when you want to switch the sensitivity of your cycle while you are flying. I seldom use it other than setting the expo value for the cyclic and rudder - which is your next question.


5-How much expo for cyclic and rudder??
Answer - definitely this is a person preference again depending on all the factors defined in question 2. I find 25% is about right for the cyclic. More than that it is too "sluggish" - less than 20% I tend to over-control. Rudder is the only exception - it feels better when it is linear (expo => off).

Last comment - every heli has it's own characteristics - some good - some not so good. The only way to know what's the best setting is trial and error. Eventually (more error than trial) - you will get it dialed in where it just feels good. If doesn't seem to want to ever dial in - you may need some mechanical adjustments and tweaks - or some more time on the simulator. Most importantly - I keep saying this to myself every time I fly but sometimes I don't listen - "take it slow and easy" - especially when training something new. It's that "I can do that" impulse that gets you every time!! Have a great training!

captJac
thanks Cap for the fast reply tomorrow i want to set my head to -11/11 mechanic and the set it with this numbers, thanks for all. for the swash mix i not have it beacause is flybarless but i thin than i want to be ok with 6 degrees, i test it an post my result soon, thanks again.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 09:57 PM
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Joined Nov 2012
8 Posts
Also my Tarot Zyx manual said to use 40% expo in cyclic!!! what you think?
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 10:45 PM
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barnstorm100's Avatar
United States, CA, Rancho Cordova
Joined Jan 2011
3,852 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FherPR View Post
Also my Tarot Zyx manual said to use 40% expo in cyclic!!! what you think?
The ZYX is different. I have one dual rate set on mine at 63 and other set at 50. You can have whatever setting you want to try and switch to either one. Then adjust in your DX7s to more or less and try again till you get it where you want it.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 11:03 PM
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barnstorm100's Avatar
United States, CA, Rancho Cordova
Joined Jan 2011
3,852 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptJac View Post
Want to keep this thread going - too easy to get diverted off course and too easy for beginners to get on the wrong track. Anyone can fly - all you have to do is keep it in the air. But precision take-off and landings and maintaining a constant hover and turning the nose and doing very slow figure 8's and circles - is a far cry from zigging and zagging and bobbing and flipping like a humming bird on crack. Just because collective-pitch helicopters can fly 3D doesn't mean you have to or even want to. Flying an RC helicopter is very much like flying the kind you fly in - except RC helicopters are more difficult to fly. You may even find flying like the real thing may lead you to trying the real thing - a bit more expensive than RC helicopters, but without the RC, an experience that you will never forget and could even become more than a hobby. It takes many hours of training and practice to learn how to fly. Be patient - that's the most difficult part of learning. Have a great flight!!

captJac
Hi Captjac, Thanks again for helping me a year and a half ago to get started. I struggled with deciding on practicing 3D for a long time. I do appreciate the skill required to execute the 3D maneuvers. I like some graceful and precision inverted transitions and I'm working on them. Also I can almost do backward figure 8s now which is not 3D. I had to try some more moves after awhile. I mean, what would I do with my stock of repair parts otherwise
What I don't get(must be getting old) is the tic-tocs. just doesn't appeal to me.
But, thanks again,your the one that got me started.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 07:42 AM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Witham
Joined Feb 2011
899 Posts
same here, you gave me the confidence to get airborne and figure out my mistakes.
I got the forward flight and circuts down pat now but my fine motor skills are still lacking.... I was using speed to mask poor control. My interest now is smoothness/precision and its making me realise quite how poor my fine motor skills are. when you are zipping around all over the place, thinking you can fly the speed masks your mistakes. Its not till you slow things down the "over controlling" becomes apparent.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 09:43 PM
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Joined Oct 2012
870 Posts
Cap'n, are the recommended pitch and throttle settings for any particular size heli (like a 450?) or the same for smaller ones like my 250 size (with brushless motor)? And can we use them for even smaller 100 size CP helis?

Thanks,
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 03:36 AM
Rotor Controller
CaptJac's Avatar
Aachen Germany
Joined Dec 2007
2,076 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentar View Post
Cap'n, are the recommended pitch and throttle settings for any particular size heli (like a 450?) or the same for smaller ones like my 250 size (with brushless motor)? And can we use them for even smaller 100 size CP helis? Thanks,

With a little "tweaking" these settings will work for all sizes. Have a read of post #10 and post #48.
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 09:25 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2012
8 Posts
Hi people, i fly my bird for a week with this setting and is supr cool and easy to fly, thanks fos the suggentions ans opinios, also i need to know your opinion about the head speed for a 450 scale fly with 2 blades, for now is pod and boom but i have my hudge 500 fuse waiting for more practices, so i need ideas of the deasd speed with and without fuse, thanks for read
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