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Old Sep 05, 2012, 09:39 AM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
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Gen Ace Battery stats

Here is the link I just found it. This is supposed to be a super battery.

http://www.giantshark.co.uk/forum/vi...p?f=121&t=7579

Also, for those interested in what would be the best connector to use looking at the stats, they have one that will handle 150 Amps. continuous.

Go here to read the stats:
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 09:42 AM
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United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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Gen Ace Battery stats

Here is the link I just found it. This is supposed to be a super battery.

http://www.giantshark.co.uk/forum/vi...p?f=121&t=7579

Also, for those interested in what would be the best connector to use looking at the stats, they have one that will handle 150 Amps. continuous.

Go here to read the stats:

The 10th post down is the attachment for connectors.

http://www.giantshark.co.uk/forum/vi...p?f=121&t=7579
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:00 AM
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That was the first time I ever put them out together for a size comparison. The 450 is so tiny compared to the light green Miniature Aircraft X-cel Gasser.

Sorry to say but I have 2 more nitro helicopters I didn't show, one took a real bad crash & busted the frames, the other is so old, I'm not sure I even want to restore it. So that would be 1 Gasser, 3 Nitro's & one electric. Then the 3 planes & 1 electric off-road buggy, 1 electric off-road stadium truck, 1 Nitro 4X4 1/8 scale off-road truck.

I can't sell them, I wouldn't get crap for them, I think.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Apphoard View Post
Man the V450 looks like a MiniCP. lol
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Old Sep 05, 2012, 10:16 AM
Team WarpSquad
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Joined Jun 2011
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@Torch8, I fixed your RX finally. Not pretty but works... for now. I had intended using a tiny mouse switch but it turned out to be too big... so I ended up sticking one of the micro switches on the outside instead.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 04:04 AM
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That's why you have the free time, just work, then play! No honey-do-lists.

You could open your on shop, I know a person that I started flying helis with, that opened his own. It took some years, but I think he is doing pretty good now.

I plan on replacing that nut, I am sure I have a proper sized one in my spare parts bins. I wouldn't trust flying it again till I replaced it.

Yup, I knew it had a plastic insert & I wouldn't use CA glue on it, thanks for bringing it to my attention though.



[QUOTE=IntegrityHndywrk;22641120]
I suppose i force the time in. I'm not married, and pretty much have no plans to really be any time soon. I have no kids and can always find an hour on the way to or from work or something else. I am very lucky to have a bunch of fields to fly at all over town. Most of them right next to my house. So yeah. I'm lucky in that sense. One day i would like to turn this into a local business or something. You know, maybe start my own LHS. I don't know. But for right now i'm going to endeavor into building and selling helicopters for a small profit, just for fun. Mostly just trying to regain some of my losses with the v450

About your blade grip nuts. Don't use thread lock on them. They are lock nuts and the thread lock could deteriorate the nylon locking ring. Some times they are just not made right too though. I would replace them ASAP, if you have a v450 screw set there should be spares in that.

QUOTE]
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 08:40 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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[QUOTE=A VIKING;22645608]
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post

I can see the attaction to the X5, they did a nice build on it and with nuts on the servo horn balls....who whould have thought
At this point for me, and at my level of flying, which is improving every day thanks to the Phoenix sim and my modded M120, the V450 is a good fit. After replacing the servos,ESC and drive gears with better versions and it already had a good RX, motor and frame, the total cost is still reasonable.
The X5 would be a great "next ship" but in my case I would have to cut down some trees to make my flying field larger, but with time, my M120 might get that job done.

Viking
Yeah, so the thing that is preventing me from going to a X5 or goblin is the cost of replacement blades and BATTERIES... JESUS... $150 each pack for the X5... i didn't even look that up until today... I think i might just have to muddle though with the POS v450 after all.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
@Torch8, I fixed your RX finally. Not pretty but works... for now. I had intended using a tiny mouse switch but it turned out to be too big... so I ended up sticking one of the micro switches on the outside instead.
NICE, that was about the smallest one your going to find without hitting a electronics supply for a micro push button like the one inside the RX. Good work man. It's not pretty but, hell its a 2702.... who needs it to be?
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 09:53 AM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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When i bought my trex i wanted to get the best batts also, so i went with hyperion, then dustin at heliheli hooked me up for buying everything! You got to wheel and deal!My 600 is a 12cell so i use 2 3300mah per flight plus the 2100mah 2cell for the brains! Its a big step , but the most fun, i shake like crazy when i fly her!


[QUOTE=IntegrityHndywrk;22656730]
Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post

Yeah, so the thing that is preventing me from going to a X5 or goblin is the cost of replacement blades and BATTERIES... JESUS... $150 each pack for the X5... i didn't even look that up until today... I think i might just have to muddle though with the POS v450 after all.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Integrity, Think of it like I did. Don't crash!

When I first started with the "Green Monster" in the back of that picture I was using wood blades that someone had to balance at $49.00 for a set. Then I did carbon fiber pre-balanced at $189.00 per set. I then shopped around for these 680-690 MM blades & found them at $89.00 a set.

Realize this, the helicopter is more stable, you don't crash as much. Plus it sits higher up off of the ground, you don't get grass stains on your tail rotor on a normally close cut lawn. They do fly nice even the 30 size helicopters, & they are bigger so you can see them better. These 450's are so small for me, I lucky if I can get mine out 150 feet before I lose orientation.

Well, I checked the Miniature Aircraft site & I was astounded! It doesn't look like they offer a Gas powered or a Nitro/alcohol bird for sale anymore... It looks like they are going electric only. This was the last & only USA MFG. in this Country too! They still carry the parts for my old Gas heli, Yippee! But I only see 3 units they are selling, and all electric. This is bad!

Also, check out those "Gens Ace" batteries, they look good for the specs. plus the price is more reasonable.




[QUOTE=IntegrityHndywrk;22656730]
Quote:
Originally Posted by A VIKING View Post

Yeah, so the thing that is preventing me from going to a X5 or goblin is the cost of replacement blades and BATTERIES... JESUS... $150 each pack for the X5... i didn't even look that up until today... I think i might just have to muddle though with the POS v450 after all.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 08:48 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
Integrity, Think of it like I did. Don't crash!

When I first started with the "Green Monster" in the back of that picture I was using wood blades that someone had to balance at $49.00 for a set. Then I did carbon fiber pre-balanced at $189.00 per set. I then shopped around for these 680-690 MM blades & found them at $89.00 a set.

Realize this, the helicopter is more stable, you don't crash as much. Plus it sits higher up off of the ground, you don't get grass stains on your tail rotor on a normally close cut lawn. They do fly nice even the 30 size helicopters, & they are bigger so you can see them better. These 450's are so small for me, I lucky if I can get mine out 150 feet before I lose orientation.

Well, I checked the Miniature Aircraft site & I was astounded! It doesn't look like they offer a Gas powered or a Nitro/alcohol bird for sale anymore... It looks like they are going electric only. This was the last & only USA MFG. in this Country too! They still carry the parts for my old Gas heli, Yippee! But I only see 3 units they are selling, and all electric. This is bad!

Also, check out those "Gens Ace" batteries, they look good for the specs. plus the price is more reasonable.
Just FYI, i am fully aware of the dynamic differences between blade construction materials. I also understand that as the length and width increases it is more important to have better construction. But really... I think some of them just build the blades how ever and price them as high as the rest. Honestly the v450 stock blades are good and strong. Also responsive. But they don't break very easily in a crash because of the wood board inside of them. So their construction for flying is very good. In fact a crashed set of Align blades will pull right apart every time at the glue where they were plyed. The stock blades are so firm and rigid that they just crash and break if you try to split them. But also i'm comparing the black CF stock blade to a blue CF Align. I think the Blue CF is just much more flexible. I don't know how all this really adds up at the end of the day. Just an observation. But the Stock v450 blades cost more than the Align, and seem to be built better too. But they don't break and that means bent FS every time and also a bent rotor head is HIGHLY possible. I think it happened to Helibiggie actually. So sometimes you want them to be cheap and break easier. Just like horns on a servo. I don't know, i just have a feeling that SAB blades are crap because they seem to be the latest fad. Kind of like how there was this huge Iphone craze. I always knew bettter, but... After dealing with android for the last 2 years and boycotting Itunes and apple for at least 9 years now. I finally got a Iphone 4 and immediately sold it... What a function less POS. Had i listened to everyone else earlier i too would probably be brainwashed into thinking it's cool to pay for music you don't own or have no access to the hardware functionality of the device you paid for. So i guess i feel like SAB blades are like that. Just because it's the latest craze. Anyway, I'm starting to feel like maybe i just am not up to the skill level to invest in a bigger helicopter yet. Then i get into the V450 and realize it probably is not capable of keeping up with me. Especially since it seems to not want to stay powered up and in the air. 4 ESC and all new upgraded electronics later, it still powers off and crashes on me.. So what am i supposed to do? Especially now with the old v450 parts becoming scarce. It's not worth "upgrading" it to the "new v450" swash and rotor head for nearly $100 when the thing ends up failing every other 3 flights or so and crashing.

About the gens ace batteries: Yeah, I know a few people that fly their 4f200 with them. They seem good, on paper.. I even applied for sponsorship from them, promising to post their name all over my helicopters and in videos. Most people i know flying them seem to like them and they look good on paper. But you know what. The Turnigy packs looked excellent on paper too. In fact they still do. Turnigy packs in 6S 5000mAh are around $60. But i'm sooooo Fing sick of my helicopter crashing because the battery or the plug or some nonsense fails. I'm almost at the point where i'm going to solder the damn battery in before each flight. I guess i'm stuck hoping the Deans plugs i ordered (which seem to not have been shipped or anything yet) will sort out my issues with the loosing power and crashing for no apparently reasonable explanation. the V450 has me close to the point where i'm going to not even worry about selling these things to recoup any money and just quitting this hobby for good. Because that will be the least stressful solution.... Adding thermite in the mix turns it from being a stressful situation into a fun day of science experimentation and safety protocol preparations. I'm pretty sure it would be a quick way to go viral on youtube too.

About "Not crashing":
I seriously think you underestimate my "no fear" policy when flying.... It's not fun unless I'm pushing my limits... Hovering a helicopter around my yard simply feels like a waste of time. I have to push the 3D envelope, Which means crashing.. Hell i'm not even comfortable flying a helicopter until i turn it into a pile and rebuilt it. After that, i know i can fix any problems with it so i immediately feel less stressed and shaky in the air. Most of my helicopters just get dive bombed into the ground within the first 15 flights. Because i'm not being careful at all. I'm trying to fly around inverted before i have accomplished a flip. I'm trying to do hurricanes when i was hardly able to bank a turn. I'm freaking crazy man. Which is also why i have not EVER been able to actually enjoy my v450. I've always had to baby it because the second battery i put in the POS the ESC caught fire. I don't mind crashing, as long as it is actually my fault. Even the best pilots crash, its a fact of life. I'm not so worried about replacing the blades now that i found out i'll have to buy 6 batteries for $150+++++ each. I could buy a second x5 for that much cash.. It sure the F is not fun to go out flying for 5 minutes (for $150), then say "that was fun now i have to go charge my one battery for 2 hours". No, no, no. That just won't work out. I pack all my stuff up the night before. Go to work, and stop on the way home. I don't even eat dinner or take a shower after working outside and sweating all day. I literally leave work and go flying every single day for about 1-3 hours. Depending on how many crashes i have and weather or not i bring my charger with me. How about this ish for passion for the hobby... I have 0 gauge wire ran to the trunk of my car for charge leads... Okay, they are not for my charger, they are for my amplifiers.... but still, lol, i have charge leads in my trunk. Like i said, it would be fun to make some side cash in this hobby. Either with a LHS, building helis and selling them or even teaching people how to fly. But first, i really have to bring the skills. The quickest way i have observed to do that is a combination of simulators and a very strict "no fear" policy and literally just go out and do it. No one was ever great by wishing they were great.. So i guess what i'm saying is "Don't Crash" is just not an option. The only way to get good is to not fear the crashes. But i'm not a rich man. I just fear selling all my helicopters to "put all my eggs in one basket" so to speak. Might not be a good idea for me. I'm kind of freaking stuck with these v450s.... I can't make the most of them because they won't let me. Hell at least i'll have 2 of them so i can still fly one after i crash the other one (every other flight)

I'm very frustrated and angry right now at Walkera as well as all the vendors who are no longer carrying the parts i need for replacement repairs. It's beginning to look like if I don't sell all of my Walkera helicopters soon, especially the V450 and 4f200, i'll just be stuck with more shelf fillers and no parts to fix them. Well, at least i don't have an old lady to get mad at me for flying my helicopters too much and turn them into shelf fodder and start throwing them at me like you guys lol.

I'm probably wrong about this. But i think i read some where that Gasoline powered RC aircraft, with the exception of Gas turbine engines, are either illigal or the AMA and others will not insure for damages with them. Some such nonsense. What ever the true story is on that, i'm not sure. But i'm pretty sure i read on the AMA web site that their insurance and AMA registration does not cover gasoline powered motors. But perhaps that was just the membership policy i was under at the time.

Anyway, i know no one is going to read all of that. Basically i'm very frustrated. Emotionally, some times this crap makes me want to cry. Because there is no legitimate reason to sink all this money into a project with upgrades and everything and STILL have it fail all the time. Meanwhile, apparently, I'm the only one with this issue and the only one realizing that everyone is phasing Walkera out of the market. It's just us fools that are stuck with them that are still flying them. I'm just very angry and emotionally charged about it at this point. So i guess all i have left at this point is venting. I may very likely start a on line advertising campagin against Walkera and invest my heli money into informing and publicly warning people about this horrible company with a egregious and consistent distaste for satisfying their existing costumers in any way at all. Aww, screw it. No one listens anyway. Everyone will just have to figure it out later on their own. I'm going to go rebuild my crappy v450, AGAIN. since my parts arrived today.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 09:51 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,962 Posts
don't take this the wrong way but...

IHWK, I'm not going to quote all that you wrote - it's so bloody long I'll have about 3 words left at the end...

My personal feeling about you and your attitude to flying is that you are so in a rush to advance that you're not taking the time to learn what you can do to fix the issues you're having.

You've been having these battery/power related issues for some time now and they keep causing you to pile the Heli. I understand you're not frightened about stuffing the heli but knowing your limits and that of your machine is an integral part of becoming a master.

I'm not having a go - I know you don't care - but I'm actually trying to help you not get so frustrated. If you're having connector issues...
how about rigging up a Y cable from the battery and ESC so you have a redundant battery connection?
How about investing some of the money you're sinking into blades etc in to an ICE 50 ESC which you can get data traces from? Then you can see that as you flip 3 mins in, your amps peak and voltage drops causing poor control/response.
You fly enough that investing in some quality 50C (80C pulse) batteries might make it worthwhile. You might get the performance you're looking for from them. You'll have to remember to calm back down again if you continue to fly your 25C/30C batts too.

I'd have given up trying to do what you're doing if I'd crashed as much as you. It's not just being able to fix it - I am happy in the knowledge that whatever I break I can fix but I still don't want to invest the huge amount of time (or money) you are spending in repairing.

Honestly, sometimes I want to come over and slap you for being so aggressive with hardware that you have so little confidence in. Each time you have to rebuild, you're changing things, replacing or not replacing parts which can give you a whole host of problems which you have almost no chance in tracking down because you've stuffed it in the deck again 10 packs later and the heli changes all over again.

If you get an X5 or a SAB and treat it the same way as your V450, it's a shame. I think you'd be missing a major point of the path to becoming an aviator RC or otherwise.

Harsh maybe? but I guess I'm not the only one that feels a little frustrated in your rush.

My advice, which is free to take or leave, is to get the heli to a point where you really know that it can do what you are asking it to do.

So, find out why the power is dropping away unexpectedly -
bad motor?
bad connections?
bad setup (too much or too little pitch)?
binding?
stalled servos?
ESC overheating?
ESC underspecified/incorrectly specified?

and try not to crash by having more altitude or only executing a semi manoeuvre before recovering. This way, you can start to sort out your issues one by one rather than it being a different issue everytime you rebuild.

Bottom line is, you make a great contribution to this thread but since we are mostly all pretty remote from one another we can't physically help out it's frustrating to hear about all this crashing when, by taking your time you could have a much more rewarding overall experience - even with a Walkera.

I want to see more video of your good flights like Biggie is pushing out.
I hope you can tame your inner self to walk before you try to run.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 11:02 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
2,280 Posts
I like the 3d pro blades also. But the stock were hard to see, i think you fly great and would be better off with a better heli with better parts. I just rebuilt my v400 and put on ebay , its a great learner with full mods, but i wont be that sad if it doesnt sell. But im growing out of its tail motor.



Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Just FYI, i am fully aware of the dynamic differences between blade construction materials. I also understand that as the length and width increases it is more important to have better construction. But really... I think some of them just build the blades how ever and price them as high as the rest. Honestly the v450 stock blades are good and strong. Also responsive. But they don't break very easily in a crash because of the wood board inside of them. So their construction for flying is very good. In fact a crashed set of Align blades will pull right apart every time at the glue where they were plyed. The stock blades are so firm and rigid that they just crash and break if you try to split them. But also i'm comparing the black CF stock blade to a blue CF Align. I think the Blue CF is just much more flexible. I don't know how all this really adds up at the end of the day. Just an observation. But the Stock v450 blades cost more than the Align, and seem to be built better too. But they don't break and that means bent FS every time and also a bent rotor head is HIGHLY possible. I think it happened to Helibiggie actually. So sometimes you want them to be cheap and break easier. Just like horns on a servo. I don't know, i just have a feeling that SAB blades are crap because they seem to be the latest fad. Kind of like how there was this huge Iphone craze. I always knew bettter, but... After dealing with android for the last 2 years and boycotting Itunes and apple for at least 9 years now. I finally got a Iphone 4 and immediately sold it... What a function less POS. Had i listened to everyone else earlier i too would probably be brainwashed into thinking it's cool to pay for music you don't own or have no access to the hardware functionality of the device you paid for. So i guess i feel like SAB blades are like that. Just because it's the latest craze. Anyway, I'm starting to feel like maybe i just am not up to the skill level to invest in a bigger helicopter yet. Then i get into the V450 and realize it probably is not capable of keeping up with me. Especially since it seems to not want to stay powered up and in the air. 4 ESC and all new upgraded electronics later, it still powers off and crashes on me.. So what am i supposed to do? Especially now with the old v450 parts becoming scarce. It's not worth "upgrading" it to the "new v450" swash and rotor head for nearly $100 when the thing ends up failing every other 3 flights or so and crashing.

About the gens ace batteries: Yeah, I know a few people that fly their 4f200 with them. They seem good, on paper.. I even applied for sponsorship from them, promising to post their name all over my helicopters and in videos. Most people i know flying them seem to like them and they look good on paper. But you know what. The Turnigy packs looked excellent on paper too. In fact they still do. Turnigy packs in 6S 5000mAh are around $60. But i'm sooooo Fing sick of my helicopter crashing because the battery or the plug or some nonsense fails. I'm almost at the point where i'm going to solder the damn battery in before each flight. I guess i'm stuck hoping the Deans plugs i ordered (which seem to not have been shipped or anything yet) will sort out my issues with the loosing power and crashing for no apparently reasonable explanation. the V450 has me close to the point where i'm going to not even worry about selling these things to recoup any money and just quitting this hobby for good. Because that will be the least stressful solution.... Adding thermite in the mix turns it from being a stressful situation into a fun day of science experimentation and safety protocol preparations. I'm pretty sure it would be a quick way to go viral on youtube too.

About "Not crashing":
I seriously think you underestimate my "no fear" policy when flying.... It's not fun unless I'm pushing my limits... Hovering a helicopter around my yard simply feels like a waste of time. I have to push the 3D envelope, Which means crashing.. Hell i'm not even comfortable flying a helicopter until i turn it into a pile and rebuilt it. After that, i know i can fix any problems with it so i immediately feel less stressed and shaky in the air. Most of my helicopters just get dive bombed into the ground within the first 15 flights. Because i'm not being careful at all. I'm trying to fly around inverted before i have accomplished a flip. I'm trying to do hurricanes when i was hardly able to bank a turn. I'm freaking crazy man. Which is also why i have not EVER been able to actually enjoy my v450. I've always had to baby it because the second battery i put in the POS the ESC caught fire. I don't mind crashing, as long as it is actually my fault. Even the best pilots crash, its a fact of life. I'm not so worried about replacing the blades now that i found out i'll have to buy 6 batteries for $150+++++ each. I could buy a second x5 for that much cash.. It sure the F is not fun to go out flying for 5 minutes (for $150), then say "that was fun now i have to go charge my one battery for 2 hours". No, no, no. That just won't work out. I pack all my stuff up the night before. Go to work, and stop on the way home. I don't even eat dinner or take a shower after working outside and sweating all day. I literally leave work and go flying every single day for about 1-3 hours. Depending on how many crashes i have and weather or not i bring my charger with me. How about this ish for passion for the hobby... I have 0 gauge wire ran to the trunk of my car for charge leads... Okay, they are not for my charger, they are for my amplifiers.... but still, lol, i have charge leads in my trunk. Like i said, it would be fun to make some side cash in this hobby. Either with a LHS, building helis and selling them or even teaching people how to fly. But first, i really have to bring the skills. The quickest way i have observed to do that is a combination of simulators and a very strict "no fear" policy and literally just go out and do it. No one was ever great by wishing they were great.. So i guess what i'm saying is "Don't Crash" is just not an option. The only way to get good is to not fear the crashes. But i'm not a rich man. I just fear selling all my helicopters to "put all my eggs in one basket" so to speak. Might not be a good idea for me. I'm kind of freaking stuck with these v450s.... I can't make the most of them because they won't let me. Hell at least i'll have 2 of them so i can still fly one after i crash the other one (every other flight)

I'm very frustrated and angry right now at Walkera as well as all the vendors who are no longer carrying the parts i need for replacement repairs. It's beginning to look like if I don't sell all of my Walkera helicopters soon, especially the V450 and 4f200, i'll just be stuck with more shelf fillers and no parts to fix them. Well, at least i don't have an old lady to get mad at me for flying my helicopters too much and turn them into shelf fodder and start throwing them at me like you guys lol.

I'm probably wrong about this. But i think i read some where that Gasoline powered RC aircraft, with the exception of Gas turbine engines, are either illigal or the AMA and others will not insure for damages with them. Some such nonsense. What ever the true story is on that, i'm not sure. But i'm pretty sure i read on the AMA web site that their insurance and AMA registration does not cover gasoline powered motors. But perhaps that was just the membership policy i was under at the time.

Anyway, i know no one is going to read all of that. Basically i'm very frustrated. Emotionally, some times this crap makes me want to cry. Because there is no legitimate reason to sink all this money into a project with upgrades and everything and STILL have it fail all the time. Meanwhile, apparently, I'm the only one with this issue and the only one realizing that everyone is phasing Walkera out of the market. It's just us fools that are stuck with them that are still flying them. I'm just very angry and emotionally charged about it at this point. So i guess all i have left at this point is venting. I may very likely start a on line advertising campagin against Walkera and invest my heli money into informing and publicly warning people about this horrible company with a egregious and consistent distaste for satisfying their existing costumers in any way at all. Aww, screw it. No one listens anyway. Everyone will just have to figure it out later on their own. I'm going to go rebuild my crappy v450, AGAIN. since my parts arrived today.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 11:04 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
2,280 Posts
Thanks at the end there but he is much calmer flying 3d than me,, but im trying , i just dont want to wreck, i have a wife to answer to lolol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
IHWK, I'm not going to quote all that you wrote - it's so bloody long I'll have about 3 words left at the end...

My personal feeling about you and your attitude to flying is that you are so in a rush to advance that you're not taking the time to learn what you can do to fix the issues you're having.

You've been having these battery/power related issues for some time now and they keep causing you to pile the Heli. I understand you're not frightened about stuffing the heli but knowing your limits and that of your machine is an integral part of becoming a master.

I'm not having a go - I know you don't care - but I'm actually trying to help you not get so frustrated. If you're having connector issues...
how about rigging up a Y cable from the battery and ESC so you have a redundant battery connection?
How about investing some of the money you're sinking into blades etc in to an ICE 50 ESC which you can get data traces from? Then you can see that as you flip 3 mins in, your amps peak and voltage drops causing poor control/response.
You fly enough that investing in some quality 50C (80C pulse) batteries might make it worthwhile. You might get the performance you're looking for from them. You'll have to remember to calm back down again if you continue to fly your 25C/30C batts too.

I'd have given up trying to do what you're doing if I'd crashed as much as you. It's not just being able to fix it - I am happy in the knowledge that whatever I break I can fix but I still don't want to invest the huge amount of time (or money) you are spending in repairing.

Honestly, sometimes I want to come over and slap you for being so aggressive with hardware that you have so little confidence in. Each time you have to rebuild, you're changing things, replacing or not replacing parts which can give you a whole host of problems which you have almost no chance in tracking down because you've stuffed it in the deck again 10 packs later and the heli changes all over again.

If you get an X5 or a SAB and treat it the same way as your V450, it's a shame. I think you'd be missing a major point of the path to becoming an aviator RC or otherwise.

Harsh maybe? but I guess I'm not the only one that feels a little frustrated in your rush.

My advice, which is free to take or leave, is to get the heli to a point where you really know that it can do what you are asking it to do.

So, find out why the power is dropping away unexpectedly -
bad motor?
bad connections?
bad setup (too much or too little pitch)?
binding?
stalled servos?
ESC overheating?
ESC underspecified/incorrectly specified?

and try not to crash by having more altitude or only executing a semi manoeuvre before recovering. This way, you can start to sort out your issues one by one rather than it being a different issue everytime you rebuild.

Bottom line is, you make a great contribution to this thread but since we are mostly all pretty remote from one another we can't physically help out it's frustrating to hear about all this crashing when, by taking your time you could have a much more rewarding overall experience - even with a Walkera.

I want to see more video of your good flights like Biggie is pushing out.
I hope you can tame your inner self to walk before you try to run.
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Old Sep 06, 2012, 11:49 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Oh jeez... I sense another novel on its way. Don't worry, you don't have to read it all, i won't care I also cut your " " out of the post.

I humbly accept your constructive criticism. But i honestly believe that the VERY, VERY, VERY mild 3d flights I've put into the v450 compared to my real ability should not be causing an issue as far as: "knowing your limits and that of your machine is an integral part of becoming a master." Even though i agree with you completely. If the helicopter flies fine for 5 flights, but on the 6th it flies 10 feet then just shuts down. I mean, OFF... no cyclic, no motor, nothing. Just like if you were to unplug the RX while the motor was running. Seriously, my opinion is that the only limitations I'm facing is having purchased a v450 in the first place and having all the stock electronics catch fire before 10 flights were over causing this eventuality in the first place... /shrug That might just be personal opinion. But as the person in question, i feel it to be factual.

You might be right about a lot of what you say. In fact i know some of it is just common sense. But i think you underestimate whats really going on. The only reason i say that is because your saying that the crashes are causing other problems that didn't exist before, causing a pile up effect. Normally, at the beginning of my experience, or with anyone else. i would agree with you. But the fact is I have the time and patients for the repairs/rebuilds and take my time now. I even enjoy doing them to a large degree. While it is true i had my share of confusion over the ESC because of the batteries and other things compounding. I admit that. The reality is that I've had the v450 completely apart and back together 3 times this week alone, once just for fun because i had nothing else to do while i wait for the rain or other parts to arrive. I don't watch TV... I fly or fix helicopters OR sit in front of the computer hitting the "random article" button on wikipedia for fun. I know, crazy right? Who could live without TV? So yeah rebuilds are fun for me. Everything just laying in parts on my bench. Then back together again in a few hours. For fun... Maybe sometimes i project to much of my frustrations at having to do it, at least in the way i present it here. Because im crazy like that i guess. Apparently no one else is as addicted to this sport as i am? Or maybe they just don't have the time with kids and all that. So while i understand, and agree with you that i probably rush too much. I absolutely do not rush though repairs, at least not at this point. When i rebuild the heli, i really check every screw by rethread locking them (most of the time) and going over all the bearings and mechanics, plus lubing things as needed. But then the heli files perfect for 3-5 packs and decides to just shut down all of a sudden. That kind of behavior is very hard for me to consider the ESC and motor being the problem. Even though it is highly possible. But, I don't fly back to back packs, EVER! There is always at least 5-10 minutes between flights. In other words i usually fly 2 other helicopters in between flying the v450. On top of that i leave the v450 in my car, while it is running, with the AC vents blowing down right on the v450 to make sure it's at a cool room temp before i fly. The one and only thing i can attribute this mostly random BS to at this point, because of the randomness, is either the battery plugs or the motor it's self. Of course it would just figure to end up being the plugs still and again after everything, with my luck. Even though i replace the plug on my ESC every 10-20 flights now and the plugs are actually all basically brand new. So whatever. Maybe it's the ESC, maybe it's the motor. But i feel like investing another $100 into an ESC is not likely to solve the issue is a waste of TIME and money. Money is worthless, you can't get back the time. But, you can spend money to shorten the time spent. See how that works? Another concept that makes me seem crazy, i'm sure. Since the issue appears almost completely random and has occurred with 2 different ESCs hooked up to it. The only other thing i can think, at this point, is that it's the motor right? Otherwise I'm having some other kind of random issue.

So, yeah, i have absolutely thought about getting a castle ice. I also already planned on owning one by now too. It was always the plan to eventually get one after, what at this point could be considered "funding R&D" for the current setup. OR just wasting money.... you can judge, don't worry i won't care. But it seems pointless to go buy one now though. Besides all this other nonsense. Whats the point when i can't even order replacement parts hardly anywhere anymore? I think wow is the only one left in the US with ANY regular crash parts left at all. All the rest are liquidating or plain don't carry v450 parts. The rest only have frame pieces and junk they couldn't sell. Even Terrance is not carrying them anymore out of Hong Kong. The only people I've even seen stocking the new v450 parts is h e l i p a l. Who i was forced to place an order with this week because it was the only one that actually had "Old v450" swashplates in stock for the last month now. So now with my plans on total rebuild and complete build of my 2nd one, to which I've had all the parts for some time now. But I have had to use the swash in my current heli after a crash. So to build both i had to finally (after a month of looking) had to bite the bullet and order them from those guys against my better judgment.

I also appreciate your kind words about my contribution here. Though, i'm not entirely sure that I've ever helped anyone or improved the quality of anyones experience. Even though that is what I hope to accomplish and would like to think is happening. I'm pretty sure it's not. I suppose it might actually be even more frustrating for you then it really is for me judging by what you have said. I do like your concept of going the Nikola Tesla route over the Thomas Edison route. Nikola Tesla is my personal hero. He is quoted as saying

“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”

I kind of realize i have been following the footsteps of the greedy and not quite as smart "inventor of the FILAMENT light bulb". (Tesla's quote above is in reference to Edison's very long search for a viable filament for his light bulb, while Tesla figured with facts and data how to build a fluorescent gas bulb almost over night)

Unfortunately, the truth is, i have always ran before i walked. At least as far as technology and information go. Which can work against me too. But I did build my first computer in 1990 when i was like 10. I refused to let my parents go to the store and just buy one. Thats not normal 10 year old behavior.... Normal 10 year olds would either not care or just be ecstatic they were even getting a computer. It did help that my parents and grandfather owned a Raido Shack franchise/ electronics repair shop. Oh yeah... 8086 chip set... If you even know what that is you must be as old as i am or older My next fond memory of technology was building a 80286 and being so HAPPY that i was getting 2mb of ram to install in it..... LOL!!! So while a computer and a helicopter are not the same, it just ends up being the way i am, i suppose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I like the 3d pro blades also. But the stock were hard to see, i think you fly great and would be better off with a better heli with better parts. I just rebuilt my v400 and put on ebay , its a great learner with full mods, but i wont be that sad if it doesnt sell. But im growing out of its tail motor.
Yeah man, the Pro 3d blades are pretty good. But there is no CF in their blade root. It is 100% epoxy resin. Once broken you can even find bubbles in it. That is probably why people complain about them sometimes just throwing a blade off their helicopter randomly when using them. Even though i have not experienced this myself. It seems pretty much an unfounded warning to me, having flown many sets of them. However for $2 difference i just get the Align blades now. I used to like to see the rotor disc more too! Thats why if you watch my last videos flying the stock blades i had white tape on the tips and center of the blade. Placed with balance and CG in mind of course. Good luck with your V400, i'm sure it will sell. People will buy anything on Ebay. Especially if it IS NOT an auction, but a buy it now only and your patent enough for wait a week or 2 with a 30 day listing. At least thats my opinion. I always get screwed on auctions. But i can overprice ANYTHING that might be desirable and it seems like eventually some rich guy that don't care will buy it.

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Old Sep 07, 2012, 12:09 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,962 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Thanks at the end there but he is much calmer flying 3d than me,, but im trying , i just dont want to wreck, i have a wife to answer to lolol.
I think this is one of the big differences between IHWK and the rest of us!

I'm just wishing there was something I could do to calm him down and try to get him a chance to have something reliable. I honestly don't think the V450 is as bad as he makes out in his last paragraph (post #2950). I don't fly mine anywhere near as much or as hard so maybe I have yet to find out but part of the problem is that his expectations and the airframe don't match. My concern for the future would be that he gets an X5/SAB and pushes them too hard when he knows that he has a failing ball joint, power issue.

You can blame the crap quality of the OEM stuff to a point but you still have to take responsibility for fixing it properly before expecting to fly it like Alan Szabo Jr. or one of his contemporaries.

The servos of the V450 suck - I had one die in the box - I replaced them (finally).
The ESC, is maybe OK, maybe not, I replaced mine with a higher spec item.
My batteries, nanotechs, mainly, and honestly, the rest, it's maybe not the worlds best but given that it's only a $500 (A)RTF Heli it's adequate.

If you really want to get into hardcore 3D, then I don't think you can trust an RTF. You have to build it from a kit and then you know what goes into it, what might be it's weak parts and where you have redundancy.
Doing tick-tocks with this V450, it's possible, but how long/how many packs before something lets go or shows significant wear/damage.

It's just like when guys snap wings off their planks because they enter a dive with full throttle and the main wing spar folds as they go to pull out with full elevator... you have to understand what the airframe can withstand. Getting all frustrated with the 'quality' of the parts is pointless.

It's like taking a good screwdriver and then bitching about the fact that it's a really crap chisel!
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Last edited by thwaitm; Sep 07, 2012 at 12:17 AM.
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