Originally Posted by Colonel Blink

For instance, a PA28 will mush with the yoke pulled right back into your stomach whether flown in balance or out of balance

If your gut is the size of your avatar that's really not that for is it

Seriously though it's an interesting conversation and I can see both sides. It would be interesting to use the rate switch and experiment with both sides of the argument.

Originally Posted by Aviefly

If your gut is the size of your avatar that's really not that for is it.

It is and now I am deeply offended by your callous remark................!!

Originally Posted by Colonel Blink

....Your comment about correcting the wing drop at stall with the ailerons is interesting. At the stall, the wing drops because one wing stalls before the other (often due to not flying perfectly balanced or directly into wind). Trying to pick it back up with ailerons means that the aileron on the 'dropping' side goes down, increasing the effective angle of attack. This will put that wing deeper into the stall, and in full size flight is a well known killer when it happens low down. Pilot training drills into you that when a wing drops in a stall, you pick it up again with rudder, not aileron. Basically you accelerate the stalled wing by yawing away from the dropping wing....

Col,

very true, but probably due to the fact that Jürgen points out (our models picking up speed fast), it just seems so much easier to control the plane. I fly my ES2 FPV, and as you don't get a good feeling of the airspeed through a set of FatSharks, you will just feel/see controls getting sloppy, and typically a wing (and nose) drop shortly afterwards. The plane is easily "caught" after that with the right (aileron+20%rudder/elevator) stick. You'll see, when get the ailerons going.

Just to go off topic on the stall/spin discussion for a sec; The most challenging 1:1 plane, I have flown is the Zlin Z242, which I did an aerobatic course on a few years ago.



Prior to a spin exercise, the instructor introduced me to the general spin habits of that particular plane by stating: "The Zlin has 3 surprises for you:
1) When she starts spinning, she'll go instantly inverted.
2) When you try exiting the (inverted) spin (by applying opposite rudder), nothing will happen... For 360 degrees, THEN the spin will stop.
3) The last surprise is that, when the spin stops, the plane will immediately start spinning in the opposite direction if you haven't removed opposite rudder at the exact right moment...

Great plane to fly, but quite a handfull for me

Originally Posted by Colonel Blink

Ah, I understand the point you are making now, Jürgen! But I'm not sure that being able to get an aircraft (model or full size) to gently 'mush' down at minimum speed, rather than drop the nose or wing in a pronounced or even sudden stall is purely a factor elevator throw.
...
Personally, I won't be reducing the elevator throw to less than the recommended amount - I only put it into the stall as part of a (normal) initial flight program. Know thy enemy!

Of course elevator throw is not the only criteria here. You also need a design, which is basically very stable and forgiving - like the EasyStar.

It makes however not much sense - for a beginner model - to have bigger elevator throws, than what it takes to stall the modell (3D models on the other hand sometimes use to 90°, but for different reasons). You don't want a beginner to stall unintentionally.

CG and control surface throws are also a matter of personal preference. The more forward you have your CG, the quicker you will run out of elevator authority. Beginners tend to over-control the model by big stick inputs. Experienced pilots sometimes prefer to control their models with small stick movements, being able to throw the model into a snap or a spin instantly by moving the stick into a corner.

Jürgen

Quite amazing, that those basics are not widely known/understood. They pop up from time to time however:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1188

Jürgen

I was wondering how feasible a water landing with a stock ES ll would be

Assuming that I seal the rear antennae tube, tape over the entire fuselage seam, and shield the front air intake, I gues no water would enter the hull, ahem, I mean fuselage

The aileron servos may be a little exposed as the one in the lower wing would sit only 2-3 cm above water.

Did anybody try it?

I also will be using Terry's (CNC Small Parts) motor mount...I am looking for a quiet set up, so looking to prop w/ 8" or 9"...is it possible to use a folding prop? my thinking is that it will reduce drag...
thanks,
christian

Originally Posted by mike_o

I was wondering how feasible a water landing with a stock ES ll would be
...

Not much difference between an EasyStar and an EasyStar II here:

Water landing the Multiplex EasyStar (0 min 44 sec)

Jürgen

Originally Posted by vascoboy

I also will be using Terry's (CNC Small Parts) motor mount...I am looking for a quiet set up, so looking to prop w/ 8" or 9"...is it possible to use a folding prop? my thinking is that it will reduce drag...
thanks,
christian

The stock setup with the 7x6" folder is already fairly quiet and low drag. Using above add-on motor mount will increase the drag. Even when using a folding 8" or 9" prop, the drag will be higher than stock.

Jürgen

Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig

Not much difference between an EasyStar and an EasyStar II here:


Jürgen

Haha - very nice. I have to try that

Thanks for the link!

Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig

Not much difference between an EasyStar and an EasyStar II here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uh3wKn0Pis

Jürgen

Cool.

If it had some way to "unstick" the wing tip from the water, you can probably take off too...Perhaps a small skid made out of Popsicle sticks...hmmm...

I guess one can always pick it up and throw it...lols...

Thanks.

Originally Posted by vascoboy

I also will be using Terry's (CNC Small Parts) motor mount...I am looking for a quiet set up, so looking to prop w/ 8" or 9"...is it possible to use a folding prop? my thinking is that it will reduce drag...
thanks,
christian

Christian

HeadsUpRC recommends the following motor as the "behind the firewall" mount option to the one you mention. It's 36.5 mm long, though.

Emax GT2218/11

Joe

sounds like a himax motor

Thermal Hobby

It's not

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...ushless/Detail

. I have an ES 2. Does anybody know if the easy star 1 canopy and the ES 2 canopy are the same? I want to chop the canopy to mount a gopro so I want a spare for when I fly without a camera. I don't think parts for the 2 are available yet.