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Old Dec 18, 2012, 08:54 AM
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O&r 60

Hello All,

I just acquired this type of engine and a couple of Giant scale aircraft as pictured. The smaller green airplane has the O&R in it with complete electrical setup.

I was wondering if it's worth restoring these old giant scale planes to original condition with the vintage motor and dihedral wings ( 3 channel) or restoring and adding a newer engine set up, modifying the wings to add ailerons. The org. set up on both which are dihedral design without ailerons. I love to build and the wings need to be recovered so I was considering adding alerons and flattening out the wings, adding bracing etc. What do you think?

I am also trying to identify both of these air-frames, any ideas on what year make and model would be greatly appreciated.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:35 AM
AMA7224 LSF1832
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The one in the foreground is a Dallaire Sportster designed by Frank Dallaire in 1936 and originally kitted by Dallaire Models amazing enough. There have been a couple kit versions both full and partial of the Sportster. Wingspan is 108" @ 1482 sq.in. It qualifies for the SAM (Society of Antique Modelers) Antique class being designed before 31 December 1938 for SAM competiton events. It is not a scale model of anything but rather a pre WW2 free flight design for Texaco or fuel allotment events.

Personally I would leave the Dallaire in it's original form, but that's just me. The Dallaire wing should be fine the way it is if built correctly. Some old free flight designs don't adapt well to sport type flying, but will still fly nicely as a climb and glide plane as originally intended. The Ohlsson will power the Dallaire just fine. DON'T try to run it on glow fuel, they were not made to run on it. Use either the standard gas and 70 wt. oil or on methanol (NO nitromethane) and caster oil. Don't use the plastic tank with methanol either as it will eventually melt it. Replace the tank with a metal one or install a modern tank in the plane and remove the tank assmembly from the engine, then just hook up the fuel line to the fuel pickup.

Your engine is a O&R .60 Special side port and should run nicely with a 14 x 6 prop at about 7000 rpm at full advance.
The coil setup is probably for 3.5 volts,most are. You'll need to make up a nimh pack for the ignition and have a shut off switch or one of the modern ignition modules made for the old engines.You will want high tension lead with a 10k resistor on the spark plug end to reduce possible radio interfenace,they are avaialbe from old timer supply vendors as are coils and modules. Nothing wrong with the old engines once you get an understanding of them and a feel for starting and running them. I have a number of old sparkers that I fly and enjoy running them both for fun and competiton. Be very careful if you are going to run the engine,they were made before OSHA and such rules and the spark timer is close the the prop. One consideration if using the O&R is noise, there are no mufflers for it and if you have noise restrictions to worry about then perhaps a modern engine would be in order.

Hope this helps you some.

One of my O&R s on the bench running on methanol and BeNol caster.
Ohlsson & Rice.60 (0 min 36 sec)
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:13 AM
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I would leave the planes alone. Originally, they were free flight planes. The wings are not strong enough for sport flying. You would have to reinforce the structure to handle it better. But even then you only want to simulate free flight flying. You only use RC to trim the plane and to keep it in your area so you don't have to go chasing it, should it catch some good lift or there is a breeze at the time. You can user RC to smooth out the dead stick landings more too.
Other than that it is pretty much what leadchucker stated
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Hey great info guy's, thank you very much! more research to do on my end with SAM and rebuilding this classic model.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 04:54 PM
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I have a 1939 Eastern States Gas Champ with an OS 25 FSR on it. I fly it like any other R/C airplane. The structure is plenty strong and it is original.

If you have ever seen a Goldberg Sailplane you would see that even these old Free Flights were plenty strong. A Sailplane and a Zipper would go straight up with no problem.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:36 AM
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Yes I think your right about keeping the Sportster stock and just recovering it. The wing is fairly beat up though and I will have to make some templates for the new spars.

My question now is how to get the old silk off the fuse. and the paper off the wings. I suppose I cant recover it with transparent film which is a bummer because the green color has gotten into the wood. Maybe the wings can be cleaned enough or I could spray it lightly with some paint, but that adds weight. So I guess opaque film is the way to go??
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:25 AM
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I think they have some transparent green shrink covering you can use. That would work if the green got onto the wood from the silkspan covering.

You can use Dope thinner and use it to soften the silk covering as the dope thinner will soften the old Model Airplane Dope they used. Do it outside though, the fumes can be toxic indoors.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:54 PM
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When I used to remove old silk, I just pulled it off. It was paper that didn't want to come off. It tended to tear as you pulled it.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:11 PM
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They also used to use a real silk cloth covering years ago too. It was a bit tricky to deal with as the edges tended to unravel on you as you applied it. You can still buy it here or there too. But yeah the special paper cloth like covering is around too.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:14 PM
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That's why we used pinking shears to cut the silk. Then it wouldn't unravel. It is still used and I still have several square yards of the stuff. There were two types of paper covering, Jap tissue and Silkspan. Got lots of that stuff too.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlwb View Post
I think they have some transparent green shrink covering you can use. That would work if the green got onto the wood from the silkspan covering.

You can use Dope thinner and use it to soften the silk covering as the dope thinner will soften the old Model Airplane Dope they used. Do it outside though, the fumes can be toxic indoors.
Acetone works well too, same cautions has earlwb mentioned. earlwb has the skinny on the colour bit too, same colour covering masks pretty much any left over stains.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:20 PM
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Whoa, a Miss Delaware! Steve Kowalik had an eye for lines, methinks. I built his Air Chief some years ago, covered in Sig Esaki Silk, orange and yellow with clear dope. I fly it occasionally--good airplane
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 09:27 PM
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When I bought the models they came with 4 rolls of Hanger9 Ultracote in white and 3 rolls of blue, So I decided to use the white for my base color which is opaque. But the dark green was spotty after removal. So i gave it a light sealer coat of white to even it out before putting the white ultracote over the fuselage.

I pulled as much as I could off then sanded and used some acetone on the rough spots. The paint I used is epoxy appliance paint. I worked good and dries fast even in the cold and damp weather we have been getting.

It worked good and I can cover it tomorrow!
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 10:43 AM
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I wonder what glue was used to assemble your plane. Years ago, we all used Ambroid as the defacto "best" glue for models. When examining old models it appears that the glue "fillets" have pretty much disappeared by sublimation. You might consider re-gluing some of the critical joints before recovering the airframe.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:51 PM
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Thanks for the tip Jim, I was wondering if I should do that too. What kind of glue would you use? I have some Tightbond or should I use CA or CA with baking soda?
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