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Old Mar 05, 2011, 09:17 PM
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cayars's Avatar
Bridgeton, NJ
Joined Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by freechip View Post
My first flight with the DX8 were with AR6200 and I had issues but none that affected flight. I still have issues with them and they are nicely tuck inside my radio case.

I doubt motioning for a ban will do anything except anger those have do not have any issues. I know I would be upset if a banned was issues by the club because one club member had issues.

Yes it sucks, but put them aside and contact HH. Nothing good will come out of motioning for a banned. Another great reason to add to my list of reasons why I dont like clubs.
Like or dislike clubs isn't really the issue here. It's safety. Doesn't matter if you are flying at an AMA club field or local park. The decision isn't based on my testing. It's based on two people (I didn't go into his testing as I don't want to speak for him) at our field PLUS all the additional information on various forums about this problem. I've exchanged emails and PMs with various people enough to know there IS A PROBLEM that isn't being recognized from the manufacture.

I personally don't like the idea of "parking" a piece of equipment I just paid $400+ for BUT I couldn't live with myself either if I did nothing and a heli lost control and killed a person at our field when I had knowledge something might be wrong.

I should have added, there are currently only two of us right now with the DX8 and we are both in total agreement over the outcome right now. We are a mixed plank/heli club and not so worried about the planks but the helis loosing control can be very dangerous, especially in the 600/700/90 size which we have a lot of.

I hesitated to even post my findings here or especially about the possible ban as I knew it might get a "I don't like clubs because..." type message. But on the other hand if it takes something like this to wake up the manufacture and get this fixed then so be it. The really annoying part is that I've contacted HH and they act like this is the first they have heard of any DX8/6200 issues when this has to be false as there is plenty of info here and on other forums of this problem. There are videos you can watch where helis fall out of the sky, etc. There is just to much information on the DX8/6200 issue for it to be swept under the carpet. There are months of posts on this.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 09:27 PM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
23,775 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cayars View Post
I personally don't like the idea of "parking" a piece of equipment I just paid $400+ for BUT I couldn't live with myself either if I did nothing and a heli lost control and killed a person at our field when I had knowledge something might be wrong.
You are absolutely right, DO NOT PARK the 400$ tx but instead park the 50$ rx.

You dont band the use of a tx because X amount of user have issues with certain RX.

That's not how thing work in the world. Glad I fly outside of clubs. I have full control on my stuff and if something goes wrong nobody is going to get since I am alone.

I just wanted to say that I would be pretty peed off if I was prevent use of my 400$ tx because someone had an issue that was been reported with X rx.

When then number of positive reponse out number the negatives.

But hey if they fell strongly about it to ask for a banned then so be it. Glad I am not part of that club. Thats all.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 09:32 PM
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Central California
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Originally Posted by freechip View Post
He returned it to only get another of the later more recent versions. He had issues with his first.

Confused myself when I read this the first time.
Aha.I wonder if we have to hear about how the trim beeps are still inaudible?
You know what Pete? I noticed that today.I cant hear the trim beep when I bump it when I fly helis.Like that frequency gets masked by the whine.Anyway...Maybe if you ask again we will get an option in the trim step menu to set it to inaudible beep or a little vibe.Maybe a little blip like the ones for the countdown timer.Or would that be confusing?
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 09:37 PM
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Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
23,775 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cayars View Post
...The really annoying part is that I've contacted HH and they act like this is the first they have heard of any DX8/6200 issues when this has to be false as there is plenty of info here and on other forums of this problem. There are videos you can watch where helis fall out of the sky, etc. There is just to much information on the DX8/6200 issue for it to be swept under the carpet. There are months of posts on this.
Its not the company acting like they never heard about it, its the customer rep you are talking to. Not every rep is as good as the other. How times in other situation the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. It applies every where.

They may not know about all the issues because some instead of going threw the proper steps to report an issue post here to complain.

You have issues the contact HH and send in you're equipement for inspection.

If you think asking you're club to band the use of it until further notice is a good idea then you are entitle to such thinking. But instead of putting you're issue on every body else why not just refrein yourself from using a radio that you think as issues and have it service and let the other members of the club decide whats the best action to take.

I had issues with both my AR6200 , I documented the issue, I video the issue. I contact the proper people and had it inspected. I am doing my part but thats not going to prevent me from flying and using my 400$.


I just think that forcing something upon others is not cool.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 10:02 PM
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Central California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cayars View Post
Like or dislike clubs isn't really the issue here. It's safety. Doesn't matter if you are flying at an AMA club field or local park. The decision isn't based on my testing. It's based on two people (I didn't go into his testing as I don't want to speak for him) at our field PLUS all the additional information on various forums about this problem. I've exchanged emails and PMs with various people enough to know there IS A PROBLEM that isn't being recognized from the manufacture.

I personally don't like the idea of "parking" a piece of equipment I just paid $400+ for BUT I couldn't live with myself either if I did nothing and a heli lost control and killed a person at our field when I had knowledge something might be wrong.

I should have added, there are currently only two of us right now with the DX8 and we are both in total agreement over the outcome right now. We are a mixed plank/heli club and not so worried about the planks but the helis loosing control can be very dangerous, especially in the 600/700/90 size which we have a lot of.

I hesitated to even post my findings here or especially about the possible ban as I knew it might get a "I don't like clubs because..." type message. But on the other hand if it takes something like this to wake up the manufacture and get this fixed then so be it. The really annoying part is that I've contacted HH and they act like this is the first they have heard of any DX8/6200 issues when this has to be false as there is plenty of info here and on other forums of this problem. There are videos you can watch where helis fall out of the sky, etc. There is just to much information on the DX8/6200 issue for it to be swept under the carpet. There are months of posts on this.
Yes there are always posts about "issues" and this specifc one isnt news.I fly the full range up to large nitro helis.So what your saying is that we should all put the radio down until something happens? Harsh.Thats all I can say.

You mentioned testing.I didnt quite fully understand what you meant by "not going into another guys results".What Im trying to understand as I read all the "issue reports" is whether anyone has confirmed that it is not a power issue.I mean beyond "it works fine with my other radio". Are you saying you are aware of logging done confirming no loss of power at the bus when these loss of control incidents are occurring? Dont get me wrong.Really Im just concerned.Honestly in some ways it could scare the hell out of a guy.
Have you confirmed it is not a power issue?

Maybe I am just lucky or I have the right angels or something but so far so good for me.I do what I call basic testing at setup or when I change something.For me that means e-logger on all the nessesary functions.Motor current draw if electric,Voltage at the Rx bus during flight conditions,and current use by Rx/servos.Ive had more than one be way too close to the edge in actual use that get beefed up one way or another.It might be working and flying fine but marginal.

Andy probably thinks Im nuts but when I started with my DX8 I went back and did some of the same tests on stuff that Ive been using.My results are mixed.I honestly think the DX8 uses the available power differently.Is this bad? I think not. Its just different.I could go on and on but my testing showed some of my setups were marginal.More than they were when I set them up awhile ago on my DX7.Swapping back and forth I had mixed results.I almost got sucked in until I just went back to the basic.Forget about everything else and test the setup.If its marginal beef it up.If it looks ok from the data go fly it and have fun.So far so good.It has made me aware of safety again.If Im scared when I fly its all over.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 10:10 PM
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USA, AZ, Phoenix
Joined Feb 2011
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I love Spektrum, I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread when I got my DX7 and started flying several years ago. I have not looked into any of the other 2.4 produces except to read several write ups when they all started coming out with 2.4 products. I found this group because I had heard of some people having crashes related to DX8 software or something to do with the product.
I am very interested in the DX8 and it's features, but it appears that Spektrum has some bugs that they seem unable to find and admit to. Maybe they just do not know how to trouble shoot the problem. I would suggest that they start listening to their users and I would suggest that they contact people like cayars and others here that have configurations that show the problem and have the Spektrum engineers go to the flying field with them and take some equipment to look at the problem. They could bring along their own DX8s and rxs and see if they show the same problems. They could also design a flight recorder that could store all frames sent by the tx and received by the rx for a full flight to see if they could catch what is going on. If they do not get this worked out soon they will start loosing market share to the other systems, or worst case, some lawyer who is into RC will get a DX8 and have problems and file a class action law suite against HH. I do not see how you go from something like the DX7, 9303 or 9503 and completely loose the formula for a good product.
I wonder if every subroutine in the DX8 is aware of when there is an none DSMX rx in the link and know to keep the connection consistent for that rxs protocol.

Has anyone had a problem with the DX8 and a DSMX rx? If not it is most likely the software the attempts to make the TX backwards compatible.
Spektrum, lets get this fixed so the DX8 owners can enjoy the product they put their hard earned money into, and us none DX8 owners can move forward to buying a DX8 knowing we can fly our planes safely, this has really gone on way tooooo long.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 10:17 PM
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Central California
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freechip View Post

I just think that forcing something upon others is not cool.
Dont even get me started.

Anyway... I finally got to shakedown my 600N today with the telemetry.Really very cool with the temp and RPM. No screwing around with a tach.Just dial in the desired headspeed.I learned a few new things about what my engine temp is doing that I didnt know before.Im sure its going to help keep me from getting my next one hotter than it should ever be like I did this one a few times.
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Old Mar 05, 2011, 11:49 PM
EDF Junkie
Pacific Northwest
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freechip View Post
I just think that forcing something upon others is not cool.
I agree. But, as a club president he has a responsibility to protect himself and his fellow club members. Banning the product is a strong move and perhaps it will get someones attention. Perhaps not. It's a tough call but not one I can disagree with. Safety is priority #1. I appreciate his move to protect his fellow club members.

There has to be something wrong other than just power when you can fly the planes on one transmitter with no issue and the exact same plane has an issue with the DX8. Could the DX8 be sending a signal that in some way the AR6200 doesn't recognize? Could low power cause a brownout and the AR6200 recovers properly from a DX7 signal (in milliseconds so it's not noticed) but it doesn't recover properly sometimes from a DX8 signal and does a 3 second reconnect? Has he had a power issue all along and the AR6200 has been recovering and auto connecting but it wasn't noticed because it happened so fast (perhaps just a weird twitch in the models flight)? Is the auto reconnect not working now on the AR6200 and the receiver has to go through a complete initialization (seconds) when the power blips? Resulting in a loss of control that sometimes ends in a crash because the failure starts at a low altitude?

I love my DX8 but I also hate the feeling of the loss of control of an aircraft. It is unacceptable.

The reason I originally bought the DX7 was a bad receiver in a RTF Stryker. On the maiden flight it went wacko (stock transmitter). I saved it 3' from the ground and then before I could land it went wacko again and splatted. Fortunately no one was hurt. I vowed I wasn't going to experience that issue again and I bought the DX7 as it was essentially promised (I know brownouts and interference can still happen) that I would always be able to maintain control of my aircraft. I have had flawless performance from the Spektrum DX5e, DX6i and DX7. I am very concerned about the performance of the DX8, even if a failure requires a combination of factors such as a power problem and the AR6200 (of which I have 15+) of them.

So far I have not had any issues with the DX8 and my Ultra Micro BNF's. I have not tried any of the AR6200 receivers and won't until this issue has some sort of positive resolution. I don't think I should have to buy replacement receivers in 15 aircraft so I can fly them on my new transmitter. Freechip, I don't think you should have to keep some of your receivers in your case because they aren't working anymore.

I hope the resolution comes soon. Perhaps a move of banning the DX8 until it is resolved will help the rest of us. These problems shouldn't be happening.

I look forward to enjoying the same flawless performance from the DX8 as I have enjoyed in the earlier models of the Spektrum equipment.
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 01:33 AM
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Central California
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Originally Posted by NwRcFlight View Post
I agree. But, as a club president he has a responsibility to protect himself and his fellow club members. Banning the product is a strong move and perhaps it will get someones attention. Perhaps not. It's a tough call but not one I can disagree with. Safety is priority #1. I appreciate his move to protect his fellow club members.

There has to be something wrong other than just power when you can fly the planes on one transmitter with no issue and the exact same plane has an issue with the DX8. Could the DX8 be sending a signal that in some way the AR6200 doesn't recognize? Could low power cause a brownout and the AR6200 recovers properly from a DX7 signal (in milliseconds so it's not noticed) but it doesn't recover properly sometimes from a DX8 signal and does a 3 second reconnect? Has he had a power issue all along and the AR6200 has been recovering and auto connecting but it wasn't noticed because it happened so fast (perhaps a weird twitch in the models flight)? Is the auto reconnect not working now on the AR6200 and the receiver has to go through a complete initialization (seconds)? Resulting in a loss of control that sometimes ends in a crash because the failure starts at a low altitude?

I love my DX8 but I also hate the feeling of the loss of control of an aircraft. It is unacceptable.

The reason I originally bought the DX7 was a bad receiver in a RTF Stryker. On the maiden flight it went wacko (stock transmitter). I saved it 3' from the ground and then before I could land it went wacko again and splatted. Fortunately no one was hurt. I vowed I wasn't going to experience that issue again and I bought the DX7 as it was essentially promised (I know brownouts and interference can still happen) that I would always be able to maintain control of my aircraft. I have had flawless performance from the Spektrum DX5e, DX6i and DX7. I am very concerned about the performance of the DX8, even if a failure requires a combination of factors such as a power problem and the AR6200 (of which I have 15+) of them.

So far I have not had any issues with the DX8 and my Ultra Micro BNF's. I have not tried any of the AR6200 receivers and won't until this issue has some sort of positive resolution. I don't think I should have to buy replacement receivers in 15 aircraft so I can fly them on my new transmitter.

I hope the resolution comes soon. Perhaps a move of banning the DX8 until it is resolved will help the rest of us. These problems shouldn't be happening.

I look forward to enjoying the same flawless performance from the DX8 as I have enjoyed in the earlier models of the Spektrum equipment.
Lets see if I understand what you said.
You havent had any problems yourself but your ready to endorse a ban based on what someone else said thier "friends" data might show? You dont think a specific model could operate differently with 2 completely different Txs?
Im pretty sure if you do some independant testing you will be surprised to find otherwise.Is it the Txs fault that the Rx doesnt get the power it needs for any specific application?

So far I am enjoying performace better than the other Txs I have used.I give them(Rxs) the power they need and they do what I want them to.How do you know if its getting what it needs? Test it.
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Need2Fly View Post
Has anyone had a problem with the DX8 and a DSMX rx?
None, so far. I've had several flights with the AR6115 and the AR8000. Haven't had a single blip.
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 04:16 AM
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Rhode Island USA
Joined Aug 2010
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Unacceptable!

The nightmare continues! I think a universal ban would get Horizon Hobby to wake up and get with the program. It seems everything today suffers from what I call "SBS".(Superceded By Sh#t). Whenever a new product come out it is worse than its predecessors.
Had enough,
VP
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 04:30 AM
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My dx8 had now more than 400 flights without any transmition's problem. The majority with the AR8000's receiver which i never lost a single frame and i like the DSMx witch is connecting very fast.

The AR8000 is installed in a 450's size helicopter then i never fly over 150m but it's a carbon frame helicopter.

In my other 450's helicopter i used a copy of a 6100 receiver and i have no problem too.

I find it's a great transmitter for my own experience with sometimes center's problem in aileron. It's better with stronger setup then it's not absolutly perfect but it's resolved when i move right and left the aileron's stick then it's not a real problem for me. It's just a little disturbing.
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 04:59 AM
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Australia
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Originally Posted by furien View Post
It's better with stronger setup then it's not absolutly perfect but it's resolved when i move right and left the aileron's stick then it's not a real problem for me. It's just a little disturbing.
wait till your rudder channel suddenly is off by 8 or 12%, and your heli rotates without warning...that will disturb you!

(and hope it doesn't by the way!)
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 06:05 AM
EDF Junkie
Pacific Northwest
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerocal View Post
Lets see if I understand what you said.
You havent had any problems yourself but your ready to endorse a ban based on what someone else said thier "friends" data might show? You dont think a specific model could operate differently with 2 completely different Txs?
Im pretty sure if you do some independant testing you will be surprised to find otherwise.Is it the Txs fault that the Rx doesnt get the power it needs for any specific application?

So far I am enjoying performace better than the other Txs I have used.I give them(Rxs) the power they need and they do what I want them to.How do you know if its getting what it needs? Test it.
Apparently you didn't comprehend my post. I said maybe it's right in his situation and maybe his decision will help us all ultimately. And, I said so far I haven't had an issue but I shouldn't have had one yet because I haven't tried an AR6200 I've only used the other ones. I also said I love my Spektrum equipment and I hope this issue is put to bed soon. And it wasn't his friends data, it was his. His friend also had a failure but he didn't want to include the friends data in his comments or speak for him. He felt it was up to the friend to do that.

In the past did models quit working when people moved from any Spektrum transmitter to another one? I haven't heard of any. I've moved from DX5e to DX6i to DX7 and never had a problem. Now we hear of problems. Maybe all of these people reporting problems are lying. I don't think so.

I don't want to do any testing with my models. I shouldn't have to. Why would I expect the TX's to work differently? That would be pretty poor design on Spektrums part.

The transmitters and the RX's are limited function computers. Computers can and do have communications failures. How they recover from those failures can vary. It is the receivers fault if it doesn't recover properly from an error condition. I have AR6100 receivers that I should have sent back for a firmware update because of the exact situation I described in my post. The receiver firmware was updated to reconnect within milliseconds after a brownout situation. Prior to the firmware update the receiver took seconds to recover from the brownout. Models crashed while the reset occurred. At the time of the firmware update other types of Spektrum receivers had already been modified for the quick reconnect feature so they didn't need to be updated.

The programming is different between these transmitters (DX6i, DX7, DX8). There could be a difference that causes a problem in a certain situation (ie: brownout recovery). I was offering some ideas of things to look for so perhaps this particular failure can be identified.

I waited months before ordering my DX8 because of the issues I heard about. That's not my style. I'm usually the first in line for every new item Horizon puts out. I thought I waited long enough and the newest version of the DX8 firmware fixed the early bugs. Maybe I did wait long enough. Maybe there is no issue. But I'm going to look at this logically and if someone else that appears to be reasonable is raising a flag I'm going to pay attention. This guy reported multiple problems on the same day! I haven't had one problem with the DX6i or DX7 in over four years. I imagine he hasn't either or he wouldn't be commenting now.

I'm not going to risk irreplaceable models to test it. I don't have any repairs on my models now and I don't plan to make any. I'll proceed cautiously. You proceed in your manner. We'll both be happy.
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by boltor View Post
wait till your rudder channel suddenly is off by 8 or 12%, and your heli rotates without warning...that will disturb you!

(and hope it doesn't by the way!)
Of course, i will probably lose the control if the aileron is off suddently by 12%. In FBL it's probably very difficult to drive.

But after more than 400 flights i see sometimes off to 6% at the beginning with soft set up and 2% with stronger set up and it's resolved when moving stick.

Then i will prefere to be every time at 0% but it's the only default i saw during these flights. It's only my experience and the DX8 has probably some problems, but most of time with most of users i believe it's ok.

But i hope i will have ever 0% in the future, and i hope Spektrum is working on this problem.
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