HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:24 AM
Scotland the Brave
Dusty1000's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Glasgow
Joined Mar 2008
1,035 Posts
Discussion
UN Calls on Israel to Open Nuclear Program to Inspections

Considering the hypocrisy regarding Iran's non-existent nuclear weapons program, this is long overdue.

The UN General Assembly has overwhelmingly approved a resolution calling on Israel to open its nuclear program for inspection “without further delay.”

Quote:
The resolution was approved on Monday by a vote of 174-6 with 6 abstentions and calls on Israel to join the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty immediately and open its nuclear facilities to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Dusty1000 is offline Find More Posts by Dusty1000
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:29 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
1,276 Posts
Love those nonbinding resolutions from Israel haters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hack article
If Israel agreed to dismantling its vast stockpiles of nuclear weapons and to a deal enforcing a nuclear weapons-free zone in the Middle East – a deal Iran and Israel’s Arab neighbors have repeatedly proposed – the supposed threats Israel faces in the region would virtually disappear.

But Israel refuses to give up its nuclear monopoly, insistent on maintaining its excuse to build up its military and distract from the Palestinian issue.
1. What "vast stockpiles"?

2. What "nuclear monopoly"?

It's a hack article, with outright lies in it. Israel does not have anything like a "nuclear monopoly". The sad thing is that it's not surprising that you would post it.

Since India, Pakistan and North Korea, have also not signed the NPT, I trust that your not mentioning them is merely an oversight?
madsci_guy is online now Find More Posts by madsci_guy
Last edited by madsci_guy; Dec 04, 2012 at 08:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 09:24 AM
Scotland the Brave
Dusty1000's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Glasgow
Joined Mar 2008
1,035 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
Love those nonbinding resolutions
It doesn't make much difference whether it's binding or not, as Israel would no doubt refuse to accept it anyway. Just as in the event of Israel's refusal to abide, any resulting resolutions imposing sanctions would not have to be binding, as it would be up to each member state to decide whether they want to impose sanctions on Israel or not.

Quote:
from Israel haters.
I understand how someone who supports Israel's illegal activities, which prolong the conflict, causing yet more Israeli and Palestinian civilian deaths, suffering and misery, would consider someone who criticises Israel's illegal activities, and supports diplomatic solutions and adherence to the rule of law, to be an ''Israel hater.'' When lacking a valid argument, it's not unusual for people to resort to attacking the messenger instead.

Quote:
1. What "vast stockpiles"?
The hundreds of nuclear weapons Israel is believed to posses.

Quote:
2. What "nuclear monopoly"?
Israel's nuclear weapons monopoly in the middle east.

Quote:
It's a hack article, with outright lies in it. Israel does not have anything like a "nuclear monopoly". The sad thing is that it's not surprising that you would post it.
Where are the outright lies?

Quote:
Since India, Pakistan and North Korea, have also not signed the NPT, I trust that your not mentioning them is merely an oversight?
No, the article doesn't mention any of these countries. India and Pakistan aren't generally considered to be much of a danger to anyone except each other. North Korea's nuclear weapons program is tiny, and they are already isolated from, and demonised by most of the world. Don't you also think it would be hypocritical for the international community to take action against Pakistan or India, without doing so against Israel first? I would think India and Pakistan would certainly be quick to point that out.

Israel has a nuclear weapons monopoly over it's enemies, while Pakistan and India's nuclear weapons deter each other. If Iran had nuclear weapons, do you think Israel would be threatening to attack? The international community is already telling Iran it can't have nuclear weapons, even though it doesn't have any, and says it doesn't want them. What else can they do?

With Israel's increasingly aggressive and radical leadership, Iran's leaders might change their minds, throw out the IAEA inspectors, and begin a full-blown nuclear weapons program. Rather than both Israel and Iran having nuclear weapons, don't you think it would be better if neither country had them?

All countries in the middle east are strong proponents of a nuclear weapons free middle east, except Israel.

Dusty
Dusty1000 is offline Find More Posts by Dusty1000
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 09:31 AM
E-flyer since 1981
Michael in Toronto's Avatar
Joined Oct 2000
1,492 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty1000 View Post

1. I understand how someone who supports Israel's illegal activities,

2. which prolong the conflict,

Dusty
1. Israel's nuclear program is not illegal.

2. It seems Israel's nuclear program prevents conflict.
Michael in Toronto is online now Find More Posts by Michael in Toronto
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 11:37 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
1,276 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty1000 View Post
It doesn't make much difference whether it's binding or not, as Israel would no doubt refuse to accept it anyway. Just as in the event of Israel's refusal to abide, any resulting resolutions imposing sanctions would not have to be binding, as it would be up to each member state to decide whether they want to impose sanctions on Israel or not.
Being non-binding, it's just UN hot air.

Quote:
I understand how someone who supports Israel's illegal activities, which prolong the conflict, causing yet more Israeli and Palestinian civilian deaths, suffering and misery, would consider someone who criticises Israel's illegal activities, and supports diplomatic solutions and adherence to the rule of law, to be an ''Israel hater.'' When lacking a valid argument, it's not unusual for people to resort to attacking the messenger instead.
I'm glad that you think you understand, but I believe you to be mistaken in what you think you understand.



Quote:
The hundreds of nuclear weapons Israel is believed to posses.
Hundreds, in the plural? I think not. Most intelligence estimates have the count at under 100, call it 80 or so, and unless it's a classified US assessment, it's likely only a wild guess.

Quote:
Israel's nuclear weapons monopoly in the middle east.
Iran and Syria both are/were pursuing a nuclear weapons program, you know. But the use of monopoly being unqualified by "Middle East", in the article, was a lie.

Quote:
No, the article doesn't mention any of these countries. India and Pakistan aren't generally considered to be much of a danger to anyone except each other.
I don't know who said that but they are flat out wrong. Most think tanks believe that a nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan would inflame the Muslim world, involve Russia, and ultimately the US..

Quote:
North Korea's nuclear weapons program is tiny, and they are already isolated from, and demonised by most of the world.
Kinda like Israel, but somehow you think that Israel is a danger.

Quote:
Don't you also think it would be hypocritical for the international community to take action against Pakistan or India, without doing so against Israel first?
What hypocrisy is there? No one has ever credibly seen Israel test a nuclear weapon, but India and Pakistan regularly test theirs as part of their saber rattling.

Quote:
Israel has a nuclear weapons monopoly over it's enemies,...
Actually, if true, that would be a good thing since for over 40 years, Israel has refrained from using them. Good luck with any "Arab Spring" country.

.
Quote:
.. while Pakistan and India's nuclear weapons deter each other.
You hope. They call it MAD for a reason you know, and MAD didn't stop a very real potential full blown nuclear war three times that I can list.

1. Cuban Missile Crisis. We came within a hair of nuclear war, you know.
2. Two separate computer failures at NORAD that erroneously reported a massive Soviet first strike headed our way. The first time it happened we almost launched in "retaliation".

Quote:
If Iran had nuclear weapons, do you think Israel would be threatening to attack?
Since you think that they have "hundreds", that would be enough to flatten the military hardpoints in Iran and make a successful First Strike. You really should understand your own logic in thking that Israel might be deterred by a few Iranian weapons.

Since Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons coupled with their stated purpose of wiping Israel out, Israel likely will prevent them from acquiring nukes. I would too, if I were running the country.

Quote:
The international community is already telling Iran it can't have nuclear weapons, even though it doesn't have any, and says it doesn't want them. What else can they do?
The UN doesn't like Israel, no surprise there.

Quote:
With Israel's increasingly aggressive and radical leadership, Iran's leaders might change their minds, throw out the IAEA inspectors, and begin a full-blown nuclear weapons program.
They already have. Don't kid yourself. Going from 20% to 60%+ U235 is only a matter of a few months. Look at Iran's history of lying about their program.

Quote:
Rather than both Israel and Iran having nuclear weapons, don't you think it would be better if neither country had them?
And who exactly is gong to guarantee to Israel that some Muslim Fundamentalist controlled country will not launch chemical weapons at Tel Aviv? The UN? Please! Any shooting starts and they just run away.

Quote:
All countries in the middle east are strong proponents of a nuclear weapons free middle east, except Israel.
Utter BS. Saddam was pursuing them before GW1, Syria was pursuing them before the "Arab Spring", and may be still pursuing them, Iran is pursuing them NOW.
madsci_guy is online now Find More Posts by madsci_guy
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 12:11 PM
Registered User
United States, NC, Surf City
Joined Oct 2003
389 Posts
If my country and its allies outnumbered our "enemy" 25:1 (or whatever the ratio is), I would want them to give up their nukes, too!
Bob HSG is online now Find More Posts by Bob HSG
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 12:13 PM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
1,276 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob HSG View Post
If my country and its allies outnumbered our "enemy" 25:1 (or whatever the ratio is), I would want them to give up their nukes, too!
Fulda Gap.
madsci_guy is online now Find More Posts by madsci_guy
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 01:12 PM
Registered User
United States, FL, Eustis
Joined Oct 2012
431 Posts
Yet more evidence that the UN is a joke that enables and provides an air of authority to dictators and tyrants.
AustinG is offline Find More Posts by AustinG
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 01:14 PM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
312 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty1000 View Post
Considering the hypocrisy regarding Iran's non-existent nuclear weapons program, this is long overdue.

The UN General Assembly has overwhelmingly approved a resolution calling on Israel to open its nuclear program for inspection “without further delay.”
Israel should refuse. Heck, every nation should refuse such an inspection request.
logan5 is online now Find More Posts by logan5
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 10:38 PM
Who, ME?
dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
298 Posts
Consider this: Israel pretty much has strategic superiority in the Middle East, but is NOT declaring war on other countries in the region. OTOH, there are groups in those other countries (with sympathizers elsewhere) who openly advocate the destruction of Israel.
dll932 is offline Find More Posts by dll932
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 04:24 AM
I ♥ OpenTX
H2SO4's Avatar
Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
2,682 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
OTOH, there are groups in those other countries (with sympathizers elsewhere) who openly advocate the destruction of Israel.
Yes, I wonder why that is.

What makes it especially puzzling is that after having suffered terrible persecution in WW2, the people of Israel have collectively decided to eschew all dehumanizing and discriminatory policies toward their fellow (wo)man, and especially those that stem from a dog-given sense of racial entitlement.
H2SO4 is offline Find More Posts by H2SO4
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 06:43 AM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
312 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
Yes, I wonder why that is.

What makes it especially puzzling is that after having suffered terrible persecution in WW2, the people of Israel have collectively decided to eschew all dehumanizing and discriminatory policies toward their fellow (wo)man, and especially those that stem from a dog-given sense of racial entitlement.
"Dog given"?
logan5 is online now Find More Posts by logan5
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:14 AM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
1,276 Posts
Lysdexia
madsci_guy is online now Find More Posts by madsci_guy
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 09:36 AM
E-flyer since 1981
Michael in Toronto's Avatar
Joined Oct 2000
1,492 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
Yes, I wonder why that is.

What makes it especially puzzling is that after having suffered terrible persecution in WW2, the people of Israel have collectively decided to eschew all dehumanizing and discriminatory policies toward their fellow (wo)man, and especially those that stem from a dog-given sense of racial entitlement.
You mean like when they send humanitarian and medical teams anywhere in the world when there are devastating natural disasters?

You mean like when they treat sick Palestinian children in Israeli hospitals for free?

You mean like when they were helping Muslims during the Balkan wars?

When you say "racial entitlement", do you mean like when they rescued thousands of black Ethiopian Jews that the rest of the world would have ignored?

When you say "racial entitlement", do you mean like when they rescued French Jewish civilian hostages from Uganda when the rest of the world did nothing?
Michael in Toronto is online now Find More Posts by Michael in Toronto
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 01:01 PM
Registered User
UlteriorModem's Avatar
Joined Aug 2011
715 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty1000 View Post
All countries in the middle east are strong proponents of a nuclear weapons free middle east, except Israel.

Dusty
Huh, Iraq isnt in the middle east?
UlteriorModem is offline Find More Posts by UlteriorModem
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Israeli MK calls for sanctions on Israel Dusty1000 Life, The Universe, and Politics 108 Nov 14, 2012 06:32 PM
Discussion Israel may 'go crazy' after UN bid, its own diplomats warn Dusty1000 Life, The Universe, and Politics 2 Oct 27, 2012 05:02 PM
Careful! Top American proffesor in the UN calls for masssive depopulating the world treehog Life, The Universe, and Politics 9 May 06, 2012 02:39 PM
Discussion Nuclear plant inspection SpiGuy Multirotor Talk 14 Mar 26, 2011 12:43 AM