New Products Flash Sale
Thread Tools
Old Apr 25, 2016, 09:13 AM
Pickles12 is offline
Find More Posts by Pickles12
Registered User
Joined Apr 2016
1 Posts
Discussion
Big slow floater for PAW 60 Diesel

Hi there, I picked up a Davis diesel for a senior Telemaster, and then bought a couple of Paw diesels. The 60 paw is supposed to swing an 18" prop! I'm looking for a plan for a floater of some kind for the PAW. Something not like the Telemaster. Poly is ok, as is old timer styling. Slow, easy to fly, relaxing, no foam so the diesel fuel doesn't eat it. Any ideas?
Thanks
Pickles12 is offline Find More Posts by Pickles12
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 25, 2016, 11:28 AM
BMatthews is offline
Find More Posts by BMatthews
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
14,341 Posts
Browse through the Sport Free Flight FF IC section of Outerzone looking for old timer free flight models. You're looking for models of at LEAST a 72 inch span. And expect to never want or need to use full throttle other than at takeoff with that size of model.

Ideally you would scale the 6 footers up to 9 footers which would be a far better match to the power from that big .60 diesel.

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/browse_plans/index.asp

Another option is to check out the bigger size old timer "gas" model semi kits and plans from Bob Holman. In looking at Bob's offerings to see options for you I find that he's got a 108" version of the Lanzo Airborn which would be a fantastic matchup for your PAW diesel.

The 114" Playboy would also be an option to consider.

The Sal Taibi's Powerhouse at 84 inch span would be a slightly tidier model that would likely climb like a rocket if you use full throttle but if toned back a hair would still match that engine nicely.

Similarly the 84 inch Miss America would be another that would match that engine quite nicely with the idea that you'd seldom or never use quite full throttle other than during steep climbs.

www.bhplans.com

Bob might also be able to enlarge some other plans and cut a semi kit if you ask. For example the Lancer at around 100 inch span would be a racy looking but still gentle flying model for your big PAW.
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2016, 09:46 PM
portablevcb is offline
Find More Posts by portablevcb
Neophyte hacker
portablevcb's Avatar
Albuquerque, NM USA
Joined Sep 2003
17,163 Posts
FWIW, you want to size the plane so it will be flying on 1/2 to 2/3 throttle. The engine sounds so much better and it just sips fuel. If you don't already you might want to look into mixing your own fuel. The premixed stuff is a bit expensive.

I fly mostly smaller diesels, but, I have a .90 Super Tigre with a Davis diesel head on it. It has flown in my 1/6 scale WACO YMF and a Hanger 9 Sopwith Camel (both were 60" span). It was flying them at about 1/3 throttle.

charlie
portablevcb is offline Find More Posts by portablevcb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2016, 10:11 PM
BMatthews is offline
Find More Posts by BMatthews
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
14,341 Posts
Around these parts the folks that have enjoyed diesel engines for years now are having a nasty time getting ether. Due to its use in the production of methamphetamines in "meth labs" the sale of industrial ether is highly controlled and personal sales are right out of the question.

The guys have been getting by with winter diesel starter fluid. But while that's fine for .15's I'd hate to pay the bill to buy it to run a .60.

The other thing that is tough is some sort of ignition improver. The old standby was amyl nitrate. But that is now a controlled chemical because of misuse and how it affects the heart. There was another one the guys came up with but that too got shifted to the "controlled chemicals" list.

It makes it tough on us model habit folks that have our own monkey on our backs....
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2016, 08:37 AM
portablevcb is offline
Find More Posts by portablevcb
Neophyte hacker
portablevcb's Avatar
Albuquerque, NM USA
Joined Sep 2003
17,163 Posts
Ether is "easy". John Deere starter fluid.

Amyl Nitrate is not very available pure but substitutes are available. Look over in the diesel forum in RCUniverse. Several folks have some interesting blends using non-castrol oils and such.
portablevcb is offline Find More Posts by portablevcb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2016, 10:34 AM
BMatthews is offline
Find More Posts by BMatthews
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
14,341 Posts
That's what the local guys are using now. But it's not a cheap way to buy the stuff. You need two or two and a bit cans of the stuff to make up a gallon of diesel fuel.
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26, 2016, 11:32 AM
portablevcb is offline
Find More Posts by portablevcb
Neophyte hacker
portablevcb's Avatar
Albuquerque, NM USA
Joined Sep 2003
17,163 Posts
Depends on who you talk to. Some are using much less ether in their mixes. And my .90 runs for a long time on a 8oz tank, 2 or 3 flights.

I don't fly my big one much so I am still using a gallon I bought at the beginning of the year.
portablevcb is offline Find More Posts by portablevcb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 28, 2016, 07:36 AM
TomCrump is offline
Find More Posts by TomCrump
ARFs Are Me
TomCrump's Avatar
Traverse City, Michigan
Joined Dec 2005
13,815 Posts
I flew my 100"+ Dallaire Sportster with a .50 4 stroke. A .60 diesel would fly it well, too.

Mine was built from plans and short kit provided by Bob Holman.
TomCrump is offline Find More Posts by TomCrump
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 28, 2016, 12:00 PM
BMatthews is offline
Find More Posts by BMatthews
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
14,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by portablevcb View Post
Depends on who you talk to. Some are using much less ether in their mixes. And my .90 runs for a long time on a 8oz tank, 2 or 3 flights.

I don't fly my big one much so I am still using a gallon I bought at the beginning of the year.
The larger sizes might be good with less ether. I've never run any bigger than a .19. For those we pretty well needed 25% ether to ensure good starting.

I see that a small $4 can of JD starter is 7 oz of 80% ether. So there's roughly 6oz of ether. Based on a 25% mix that'll make just over a pint of fuel. For the .15 diesels I ran for our local control line combat that's roughly a day's worth of flying. So that's not bad from a cost standpoint. For smaller engines on sport free flights it's easily cheap and acceptable.

And really considering what I saw glow fuel selling for recently it's only about twice the cost of glow. So I guess that's not bad either considering that the diesel engines can be far more frugal with the fuel.

All of which is making me think that a .60 diesel isn't as bad an idea as I thought originally.
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 28, 2016, 01:45 PM
eflightray is offline
Find More Posts by eflightray
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
16,664 Posts
Would this be big enough and slow enough ?

You could always fuel proof it


Spectacular HUGE RC plane. 16 square meter wing SLOW MFK FALKEN (11 min 23 sec)



Ray.
eflightray is offline Find More Posts by eflightray
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 28, 2016, 04:56 PM
hallo is offline
Find More Posts by hallo
Amateur Forever
hallo's Avatar
Norway
Joined Feb 2014
1,517 Posts
The most amusing and relaxing model I have ever seen was a big LazyBee with a .70 fourstroke and big balloon wheels, they are simple and easy to make and can actually be made quite pretty aswell perhaps with a classic golden age color scheme.
hallo is offline Find More Posts by hallo
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 28, 2016, 07:13 PM
portablevcb is offline
Find More Posts by portablevcb
Neophyte hacker
portablevcb's Avatar
Albuquerque, NM USA
Joined Sep 2003
17,163 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMatthews View Post
The larger sizes might be good with less ether. I've never run any bigger than a .19. For those we pretty well needed 25% ether to ensure good starting.

I see that a small $4 can of JD starter is 7 oz of 80% ether. So there's roughly 6oz of ether. Based on a 25% mix that'll make just over a pint of fuel. For the .15 diesels I ran for our local control line combat that's roughly a day's worth of flying. So that's not bad from a cost standpoint. For smaller engines on sport free flights it's easily cheap and acceptable.

And really considering what I saw glow fuel selling for recently it's only about twice the cost of glow. So I guess that's not bad either considering that the diesel engines can be far more frugal with the fuel.

All of which is making me think that a .60 diesel isn't as bad an idea as I thought originally.
Yep, and combine that with the nice putt-putt sound a diesel makes at 1/2 throttle and it is all worth it

And don't forget you don't have to nitro proof your plane either

FYI, Davis still sells diesel heads for a lot of glow engines

PS yes I can be a trouble maker
portablevcb is offline Find More Posts by portablevcb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 28, 2016, 08:32 PM
BMatthews is offline
Find More Posts by BMatthews
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
14,341 Posts
Quote:
And don't forget you don't have to nitro proof your plane either
I've yet to see any diesel powered model with a translucent finish after a few dozen flights where the ether in the fuel had not wicked through the covering and finish and taken some of the oil with it resulting in the wood beneath those areas being stained and oiled. So there's different sorts of "fuel proofing".
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29, 2016, 04:56 AM
hallo is offline
Find More Posts by hallo
Amateur Forever
hallo's Avatar
Norway
Joined Feb 2014
1,517 Posts
It's so many years (relative to my age) since I have operated a fuel engine that I have forgotten all about the oil that comes with it, I had a 2,5ccm diesel control line engine and I ran it a few times in my basement. It was quite powerful I recall and no silencer so quite loud too, I probably saturated the whole basement with it

But when I started to use electric motors when the brushless ones started to appear I was a little dissapointed, a fuel engine is kinda like a living thing - a technical marvel that runs on liquid and comes alive when you start it up, it reacts on the throttle control just like a dog..

So with the oilfree and carefree operation of the electric motor I guess I felt that some of the essential magic was gone along with the oil, an electric motor does not come alive at all - it's sort of a static dead thing in compare. But I guess I still think it is probably often a more suitable and reasonable solution for a relatively fragile model airplane structure, that is if you don't have that particular interest for the engine itself. For me that was about 50% of the fun, my interest changed when practical sence and wisdom wanted me to convert to electric, I simply stopped wanting to build and fly motorized model airplanes.
hallo is offline Find More Posts by hallo
Last edited by hallo; Apr 29, 2016 at 07:47 AM. Reason: please have fun with all the wrong grammar
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 29, 2016, 12:27 PM
BMatthews is offline
Find More Posts by BMatthews
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
14,341 Posts
Well said hallo. I too would not want to totally give up on the engines. Nothing adds to a big old timer or a scale model of a slower full size flying copy than a nice four stroke engine. And it's just not at all the same when a nice looking warbird goes by with nothing more than a mild hum from the motor and maybe some frying pan sizzle from the prop. It's all quite sadly lacking in a big way.
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold 2 PAW .35 and 1 PAW .09 Diesel Engines pmisuinas Aircraft - Fuel - Engines and Accessories (FS/W) 14 Mar 29, 2014 04:54 AM
Discussion PAW 60 Diesel Engine maxaintright Engines 4 Apr 28, 2009 07:39 PM
For Sale PAW 60 Diesel Engine rheumatical Aircraft - Fuel - Engines and Accessories (FS/W) 2 Apr 23, 2009 10:04 PM
Discussion Gummed up PAW 0.60 DIESEL Texas Buzzard Engines 4 Nov 22, 2008 07:31 PM
Sold PAW .60 R/C diesel Jim OHaver Aircraft - Fuel - Engines and Accessories (FS/W) 8 Jul 08, 2006 09:13 PM