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Old Apr 10, 2014, 09:14 PM
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HK Sbach 1100 EPO

Just like the Britney Spears song goes "Oops, I did it again..." She's kind of a "tweener" plane; in the middle of a sport plane, park flyer & (maybe) a 3D ship that is this new HK Sbach 1100 Scale Aerobatic Plane

Call me a sucker for Sbachs (got three now...) beacuse I went ahead & pulled the trigger for this relative newcomer. Boy, was I in for a surprise... The Plug-n-Fly features touted on the HK website were tempting. Things like: "2 piece plug-in wings, rugged aluminum landing gear, cowl, battery hatch and receiver hatch secured with quick snaps, ample power and extreme flight characteristics" all peaked my interest so I decided this new ship is one I had to have......

So, I placed an order from their International Warehouse & about a week later she arrived unharmed, except for the huge $hipping dent in my wallet... Opened the box & started the assembly nightmare, I mean, process, no nightmare...... So much for being even a remotely quality kit. Should've expected this since it was <$100 US, without shipping. Foam is average, tail connection is weak, foam hinges are already cracked even before the first flight, tail wheel bracket is questionable, plug-in wings use aluminum tubing with metal sleeves & they really don't plug in at all, clevises strip easily, wheels don't spin in the wheel pants & the list goes on & on......

Yes, I'm on a rant here & I have nobody to blame but myself... I've been sucked in by one of my favorite models & by this darn hobby that I can't seem to control my addiction for...... Feel free to chime in to commiserate with me or to tell me what fool I am... It won't bother me at all since I'll be the first one to admit to all of it... Anyway, I've addressed the many issues with this Volantex RC (or Lanyu, read "danger, danger Will Robinson") so she's ready to go now. I haven't maidened this pretty lil' bird yet but plan to do so very soon. Got a few pre-maiden photos to share with the other Sbach & RC enthusiasts out there in the cyber world. AUW (using a 4S 30C 2200mAh pack) is ~2.5 lbs, or 1128g. I'll be posting a flight report so stay tuned...
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Old Apr 11, 2014, 03:17 AM
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Hi there. Did you change the ESC for the 4S mod or just keep the stock one?
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Old Apr 11, 2014, 11:05 AM
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Power Mods...

...are on tap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappySundays View Post
Hi there. Did you change the ESC for the 4S mod or just keep the stock one?
Hey Happy Sundays,
Good to see you over here on RCG. This is a much easier site to navigate than HK's. Maybe we can keep this thread active for a while...

Yes, I plan on changing the ESC but haven't yet. I've got a 55A ESC at the ready but I'm going to fly her stock first. I don't plan on flying her at full throttle much, only of for short bursts here & there. I'm even contemplating going with a lower Kv Power 10 motor but that depends on the watts & amp draw the stock set up ends up producing on 4S... From what I can tell after watching TheRoggan123's (Roger on HK) flight video of this new ship on youtube it looks like she'll do well on 4S. I'm hoping to get the first few flights in over the weekend. I'll let you know how it goes...
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Old Apr 11, 2014, 04:51 PM
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Just in case anyone wants to see the video in question...

HK Sbach 342 1100mm - Re-Maiden flight (7 min 33 sec)
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Old Apr 11, 2014, 06:14 PM
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Assembly...

...underway, or not started yet......

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Originally Posted by HappySundays View Post
Hi there. Did you change the ESC for the 4S mod or just keep the stock one?
Hey Sundays,
What's the status of your Sbach? Gotten into it already, or is it still in the cue? There's quite a bit of information over on the HK site being shared by Roger & me so that should be helpful when you start putting yours together. Let us know how the PNF (more like ARF) assembly works out for you. ......
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCAV8T0R View Post
... Anyway, I've addressed the many issues with this Volantex RC (or Lanyu, read "danger, danger Will Robinson") so she's ready to go now.
Ive had a few smaller lanyu planes (800-900mm Geebee, P47,Baracuda etc)
The quality control on my smaller Lanyu planes, is about the worst you'll ever see (not kidding here ), but they fly absolutely fantasticly. LU servos seen to be reliable so thats one good thing.

I wondered if that HK Sbach was a Lanyu, thanks for confirming it.
Its dirt cheap compared to FMS or Parkzone , so Im still considering one
How are the alerons, straight or warped ? (a LU issue on my planes)
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Old Apr 13, 2014, 12:19 AM
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The Lanyu Saga...

...continues......

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
Ive had a few smaller lanyu planes (800-900mm Geebee, P47,Baracuda etc) The quality control on my smaller Lanyu planes, is about the worst you'll ever see (not kidding here ), but they fly absolutely fantasticly.
1101,
Yes, you've got me going down memory lane as evidenced by this 3-year old photo of my (long-gone) Lanyu 900mm Supersonic 746 F3A pattern ship. For starters, the landing gear was weak, the CG was off & the spec'd lipos didn't fit in the battery bay......She was a difficult one to set up but once she's was dialed in she did fly well. I must've put over 80 flights, plus a few crashes for good measure, before she was donated to the local landfill......

Quote:
I wondered if that HK Sbach was a Lanyu, thanks for confirming it.
Its dirt cheap compared to FMS or Parkzone , so Im still considering one
How are the alerons, straight or warped ? (a LU issue on my planes)
Surprisingly, this new HK Sbach 1100 is a straight & rigid airframe. The completed model is stouter than I thought it would be. Only real complaint, other than some questionable manufacturing details & the weak tail assembly, is the elevator is warped downwards due to being painted only on one side. This seems to be a common problem on a lot of foam ships that I've had.

So to answer your question, the ailerons are straight, plus the wings & horizontal stab are parallel to each other, which is a pleasant surprise... Once I get her airborne I'm thinkin' she'll be worth the price of admission...
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCAV8T0R View Post
...underway, or not started yet......
Hey Sundays,
What's the status of your Sbach? Gotten into it already, or is it still in the cue? There's quite a bit of information over on the HK site being shared by Roger & me so that should be helpful when you start putting yours together. Let us know how the PNF (more like ARF) assembly works out for you. ......
Hi there,
I have to move house again soon so I decided to limit myself to taking it out of the box, drooling over it a bit, putting all the stickers on and back into the box. So it's one less thing to pack up
David
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 03:41 AM
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Hi Guys

I did a few more flights after adjusting the battery a bit more forwards (have done the same mods as RCAV8TOR on hatch and motor mount). Im flying with 2200mAh 4S 65C Nanotech batteries.

It still feels really tail heavy and its impossible to adjust elevator input accurately, if you pull up it just puts the nose 20 degree up and continues climbing unless you do nose down and it goes 20 degrees down The more rear bias weight there is the stronger is this tendency.

I put a Mobius camera on the rear horizontal stabilizer and it went bananas pitching 30+ degrees up and down on the smallest elevator input (im using 60% travel and 70% expo now on elevator!)

The plane looks awesome (as you can tell from RCAV8TOR's shots) and is a really sweet size for storing and transport, its pretty light weight as well for its size and DIRT cheap!. Rudder and aileron response is crisp and really nice, in fact rudder authority is among the best i've ever experienced, elevator clearly the worst

During the weekend decided to add some more front weight in the shape of a 800w motor and 55A ESC + reinforcements. I'll post a separate post on that with some pics.

Cheers
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 04:04 AM
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Motor and ESC Swap

I decided to add some more front weight, flight times with the 2200mAh 4S was over 8 minutes with the stocks setup and power was "OK" but not great so I decided to install a bigger engine and ESC.

The swap was pretty straight forward, with the only main problem that the battery tray prevented installing the new larger ESC (it was even really hard to push out the small stock one), so i removed it completely.

I went with HK NTM motor (have one since before and was impressed with the quality and power) and it did not dissapoint (not flown yet, but tried it on the ground, it sounds great and gives a real punch!), its a 4238 size motor, rated at 785 watts. It weighs about 50 grams more than the stock motor (which puts out about 400 watts on 3S).

I went without the spinner for better cooling, but you could easily drill the spinner to work with the larger shaft as well. Main job would be to extend the prop cutouts for the larger props, running on a 13x6 prop now but the motor can coope with a 14x6 as well which almost touches the ground

Also needed to cut out the foam cowling to make room for the larger and longer engine, turned out quite OK.

Ill do a re-maiden with this setup after work tonight, let's see how she flies with a bit more front weight and 3KG of thrust Ohh and i glued in the main wings as well just in case (stock bolt mounts in the foam are weak).

Also replaced the tail gear for a much stronger springed one (the stock wheel broke on first landing which wasent very harsh).

Ill report back after the next flights

Cheers
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 11:10 AM
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Mods Are Mandatory...

...to straighten this lil' bird out......

Hey Roggan,
Glad to see you've joined RCG. Nice job on the major rework. It's pretty darn compelling, almost like an obsession, to get this plane sorted out from nose to tail... Since it is "relatively" inexpensive, one can make all kinds of changes (mods) without breaking the entire bank...... Plus, getting good old, head-scratchin' hangar time is also what makes this such a great hobby, at least for me anyway. And by the looks of it, it is for you, too......

I'm thinkin' about going down that same path as you. Since mine ended up in pieces yesterday (more on that later), I'm planning on putting a Power 10 700Kv motor & 55A ESC (same as yours) on 4S into mine since it's now in the hangar E.R. for some reconstructive surgery.........

Good call on ditchin' the lite ply battery tray. Gives you a lot more room for all your "stuff".... You're going to have one hell-uv-a Hot Rod "Sbach-n-Roll" when your're finished. Lookin' forward to your next flight report......

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoggan View Post
I decided to add some more front weight, flight times with the 2200mAh 4S was over 8 minutes with the stocks setup and power was "OK" but not great so I decided to install a bigger engine and ESC.

The swap was pretty straight forward, with the only main problem that the battery tray prevented installing the new larger ESC (it was even really hard to push out the small stock one), so i removed it completely.

I went with HK NTM motor (have one since before and was impressed with the quality and power) and it did not dissapoint (not flown yet, but tried it on the ground, it sounds great and gives a real punch!), its a 4238 size motor, rated at 785 watts. It weighs about 50 grams more than the stock motor (which puts out about 400 watts on 3S).

I went without the spinner for better cooling, but you could easily drill the spinner to work with the larger shaft as well. Main job would be to extend the prop cutouts for the larger props, running on a 13x6 prop now but the motor can coope with a 14x6 as well which almost touches the ground

Also needed to cut out the foam cowling to make room for the larger and longer engine, turned out quite OK.

Ill do a re-maiden with this setup after work tonight, let's see how she flies with a bit more front weight and 3KG of thrust Ohh and i glued in the main wings as well just in case (stock bolt mounts in the foam are weak).

Also replaced the tail gear for a much stronger springed one (the stock wheel broke on first landing which wasent very harsh).

Ill report back after the next flights

Cheers
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 03:16 PM
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Hi RCAV8TOR

Thanks for the comments on the build, it was quite simple really as usually the hardest part is to refabricate the motor mount and cable routing, but here it was basically a bolt on after stripping some parts and gluing up the two parts of the original motor mount. Some research of course on finding the right motor size, KV and dimensions etc.

Mods are clearly needed indeed I can tell that for a fact now that I've flown the plane with the new motor and more forwards CG!

Its now miles better than what I was before, now I can actually do a flyby at fixed altitude even though even more (!?) front weight would improve it further. It's still overly sensitive on elevator but now it pitches ~5 degrees up instead of ~20 as before. I think the warped elevator does screw with the elevator fidelity as well, ill see what can be done about it, I might put it in a press over night to see it helps to straighten it out . Its still quite aerobatic though knife edges are not as easy as before, but still very manageble. Before it flew better in KE than in normal flight as the rudder is really sweet but the elvator sucks

The power is now good, its actually not that "extreme" but I think I need a much bigger prop to get max power with the relatively low KV (750 on 4S and 800 watt peak), engine is rated at 785watts on a 14x6 prop (stock is 12x6, im now using a 13x6). I have some 14x6 props as well (for my 2.15 meter wingspan 3,7kg Carbon Z Cub!) which I might try, but im more leaning towards getting a 13x8 prop to get better clearance. But its really not needed to have more power, the current setup has got plenty of power and speed with the same flight times as with the stock motor and prop! I easily get 7-8 minutes mixed flight time.

Really enjoy flying this plane now, just wish the elevator input was crisper and it would have been even better!

Sorry to hear about your close encounter of the 3:rd degree, is it fixable or a write off?! Good opportunity for some more mods and improvements maybe?

Cheers
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 07:20 PM
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More Power to Ya...

...& congrats on the third maiden of your Sbach......

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoggan View Post
Hi RCAV8TOR

Its now miles better than what I was before, now I can actually do a flyby at fixed altitude even though even more (!?) front weight would improve it further. It's still overly sensitive on elevator but now it pitches ~5 degrees up instead of ~20 as before. I think the warped elevator does screw with the elevator fidelity as well, ill see what can be done about it, I might put it in a press over night to see it helps to straighten it out . Its still quite aerobatic though knife edges are not as easy as before, but still very manageble. Before it flew better in KE than in normal flight as the rudder is really sweet but the elvator sucks
Yeah, that darn twisted piece of......foam. Not too much can be done other than trying varied levels of heat & opposite flexing. Problem is the EPO foam will alligator, ripple, bubble & then melt if to much heat is applied......

Quote:
The power is now good, its actually not that "extreme" but I think I need a much bigger prop to get max power with the relatively low KV (750 on 4S and 800 watt peak), engine is rated at 785watts on a 14x6 prop (stock is 12x6, im now using a 13x6). I have some 14x6 props as well (for my 2.15 meter wingspan 3,7kg Carbon Z Cub!) which I might try, but im more leaning towards getting a 13x8 prop to get better clearance. But its really not needed to have more power, the current setup has got plenty of power and speed with the same flight times as with the stock motor and prop! I easily get 7-8 minutes mixed flight time.
Seems odd that you say the power is good but not extreme. A motor that size should be pulling like a Mack truck... You're getting good flight times, too. I only managed 5:30 minutes on the first two flights......but I am heavy on the throttle, though......

Quote:
Really enjoy flying this plane now, just wish the elevator input was crisper and it would have been even better!
This is twitchy lil' plane, no getting around that. Might try reducing the elevator throws down to about 25% -35% of maximum with little EXPO. Believe it or not, lots of EXPO on minimum throws can have an adverse effect on pitch. Having a more linear rate of deflection, on low rates helps with smoothing out the pitch sensitivity. Used this tip on more than one occasion & more recently on my Hitec Extra 300S with good results......

Quote:
Sorry to hear about your close encounter of the 3:rd degree, is it fixable or a write off?! Good opportunity for some more mods and improvements maybe?

Cheers
That sounds like a good story so I'll stick to that... Thanks for the condolences. I was really disappointed after the mishap. On the third flight, the prop decided to part company from the rest of the ship, collet, spinner & all right after lifting off the deck... I was having trouble with the ESC acting up on the previous two flights but it was intermittent so I didn't think much of it. Wrong decision. Right after taking off, the prop flew off & the headwind flipped the plane on its back. Didn't have much altitude, speed or any time for that matter to adjust. I reacted by rolling the wings back to level & pulling up elevator to try & keep her from nosing in......

Wasn't a pretty sight when she hit, either... She hit nose first at about a 45 degree angle with the landing gear taking most of the impact since it got twisted backwards about 2" or 5cm. The fuse cracked through both sides from the leading edge of the wing pockets to the upper part of the rear hatch line. The foam is bruised & crushed so she's not virgin anymore. I was shocked, but all in all, it could've been much worse... Don't have any pics of the carnage but I'll post some photos after the repairs are finished......

Lastly, I didn't have any issues with the CG being at 90mm with my (old) set up. After some minor trimming, she flew both upright & inverted virtually hands off... She was extremely aerobatic with the 4S set up & KE flight was a blast. Made a few harrier attempts but didn't get them locked in too well. The first two landings, sniff, sniff, were a bit sketchy but not that bad. Just need more time on this bird to get those down without any ballooning. One thing's for sure, she'll snap roll at a blistering spin rate so be ready to relax the sticks a lot sooner than most of your other ships...
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Old Apr 14, 2014, 08:28 PM
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Power is relative It pulls really well and accelerates vertically almost like in a straight line, but I have other planes that are more extreme power/weight wise. Might get more extreme with the right prop though, like I said i am 1" down on diameter from the recommended one so its not giving full power, but its really nicely balanced now and not "overpowered".

I dont go that easy on the throttle either But I dont keep it on full for more than a few seconds at the time except for the last few flights where I was at full power for 10-20 seconds doing fast speed moves, it flies really locked in at full throttle after some throttle->elevator mixing. Even then it ran a good 6 to 7 minutes before voltage was down at 14v under load = time to land (i have temp and voltage telemetry installed on all my birds).

Sorry to hear about that, I have had a prop fly off as well at one time, that can go bad if it happens at the wrong time and altitude! At least the damage sounds very repairable, just bend the gear back or swap with another one (it is quite weak anyway) and re-inforce the gear mount. Some CA on the crack and some black electric tape over the crack in the black paint and she will be like new

I will take the Bach out tomorrow for another set of flights and maybe shoot a video, thinking of trying the massive 14x6 prop but it will be less than an inch of the ground when leaning back on the gear...

Best of luck with the repairs!
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Old Apr 15, 2014, 11:15 AM
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Telemetry & Data Logging...

...you are very well connected & informed. Just another compelling aspect to this great hobby of ours......

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRoggan View Post
Power is relative It pulls really well and accelerates vertically almost like in a straight line, but I have other planes that are more extreme power/weight wise. Might get more extreme with the right prop though, like I said i am 1" down on diameter from the recommended one so its not giving full power, but its really nicely balanced now and not "overpowered".

I dont go that easy on the throttle either But I dont keep it on full for more than a few seconds at the time except for the last few flights where I was at full power for 10-20 seconds doing fast speed moves, it flies really locked in at full throttle after some throttle->elevator mixing. Even then it ran a good 6 to 7 minutes before voltage was down at 14v under load = time to land (i have temp and voltage telemetry installed on all my birds).

Sorry to hear about that, I have had a prop fly off as well at one time, that can go bad if it happens at the wrong time and altitude! At least the damage sounds very repairable, just bend the gear back or swap with another one (it is quite weak anyway) and re-inforce the gear mount. Some CA on the crack and some black electric tape over the crack in the black paint and she will be like new

I will take the Bach out tomorrow for another set of flights and maybe shoot a video, thinking of trying the massive 14x6 prop but it will be less than an inch of the ground when leaning back on the gear...

Best of luck with the repairs!
14x6 is going to be a monster prop for an 1100mm bird...... It's like they say, there is no replacement for displacement... Good luck with your next flights...

My lil' Sbach is almost back together. Just need to make a new motor back plate so I can get the new Power 10 1100 Kv motor spaced out properly for my new setup, including a new spinner for the bolted-on prop shaft adapter. Not taking any chances next time out......
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