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Old Today, 09:08 AM
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NOTAR 600's Avatar
Central Ohio
Joined Nov 2007
1,668 Posts
A 20% increase in thrust sounds pretty good!
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Old Today, 09:27 AM
Registered User
Vienna, Austria
Joined Apr 2007
2,141 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkal View Post
I decided to install the XRP 11-blade EDF with the stock Skyangel 4300kv motor into my Mirage 2000. It has a huge exhaust diameter at ~ 51.8 mm! (stock)....
Kevin, I think the sound will be great - there was a nice exhaust note on your Mirage already with the 5-blader. I guess it is because the rear is actually opening up, it's even larger than the fan inner diameter, while it shouldn't be larger than 100% FSA (42mm) - witness the great sound of the Hobbyking Zephyr, I think part of it is due to an exhaust actually widening up (and people mounting coffee cups etc. to get a sensible thrust tube...
According to orthodox theory, however, this should be bad for efficiency, so it might be beneficial to reduce to some 45mm at least. How long is the "thrust tube", I mean the distance from the fan rear end to the exhaust? Most probably not worth bothering. Waiting for a nice video of your Mirage 11-blade with great soundtrack :-)
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Old Today, 10:13 AM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkal View Post
The "benefit" if you want to see it that way, in addition to the nice whoosh sound, is that your top speed will be higher.

I just ran a quick test with the XRP 11-blade EDF connected to a stock Skyangel 4300kv motor. I ran it in my hand with the inlet lip taped on. I had to put a higher C pack inline to keep it from sagging too much. Using a 1000mAh 65C 3S pack, it peaked at 24.5 Amps and 275 watts. This was with a stock 20A ESC.. hope it doesn't fry. Perhaps I'll place it in the F-35 airframe I have sitting here and see what the thrust nubers look like. Too many projects!

Aside, I had a hell of a time manually aligning and balancing the XRP fan. For some reason, when I attach the threaded brass hex stock to the front of the shaft, it would not run true. It always wanted to run out by some amount and thus caused horrible vibration. I replaced the poor quality nuts that came with the XRP unit, and that helped true up the fan on the shaft, but still the hex stock would run out enough to cause bad vibs at high rpm. Finallly, I resorted to manually stuffing some poster tac weight in between the pie shaped sections of the fan hub center until It ran smoothly without the spinner. Then I attached the spinner with a small mass of poster tack in it, aligned to the same azimuth as the mass I'd added to the inside pie section of the fan/hub. After about a hour or two.. it hit it just right and it runs nicely now. There's got to be a better way to do this.. but I think it involves using higher quality threaded nuts and hex stock that is surfaced true to the centerline.
well that's the beauty of the spinner..............u may be able to just add weight inside the spinner and eliminate a step. 2 hours is about right for me after disassembling the motor , lubing the bearings , balancing the motor alone, static balancing the rotor, assembling , clocking , them balancing again running, reclocking , adding weight in the spinner and final tune by clocking the spinner
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Old Today, 10:31 AM
cmd
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cmd's Avatar
Niceville, FL
Joined Oct 2004
1,236 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Man View Post
Just means that you need to use a 4S battery, that's all.
Not with a 4900 Kv motor driving the fan.
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Old Today, 10:34 AM
warranty expired
NOTAR 600's Avatar
Central Ohio
Joined Nov 2007
1,668 Posts
If I were able to remove the bearings from the stock 4300kv motor and leave them soak in a small pill jar filled with light machine oil, does that sound like an okay idea?
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Old Today, 10:35 AM
cmd
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Niceville, FL
Joined Oct 2004
1,236 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkal View Post
I've a question to those with experience with the Skyangel F-35...
Are the stabilators ok in their flimsy stock form? Or should something be done to increase their stiffness? I'm thinking of laying a small thin layer of carbon fiber tow top/bottom.
The fly just fine stock. I've been flying mine for several years with no issues. Search way earlier in this thread for a picture of where the elevator needs to be for neutral with stock CG.
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Old Today, 12:01 PM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTAR 600 View Post
If I were able to remove the bearings from the stock 4300kv motor and leave them soak in a small pill jar filled with light machine oil, does that sound like an okay idea?
u dont need that much oil............ i use the scorpion oil and from their directions 1 to 2 drops on these small bearings is enough . the bearings are shielded not sealed and it does wick in. if u use more it will just cause unneeded friction and will fling out inside the motor. the bigger issue is the fact that the bearings themselves can be junk from the start.

chuck.
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Old Today, 12:19 PM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkal View Post
The balanced stock 5-blade Skyangel EDF inside the AMX fuselage generated ~290gr peak thrust and tapered down to the 270's after 10 or 20 seconds. This was on a 3S 950mAh 25C NT pack. So it looks like I'll not be able to get 1:1 thrust:weight. I'm guessing the AUW will be around 320g.
The AMX intake ducting isn't the best.. with two servos and their wires protruding just in front of the EDF.
i never worried about the servos , fwiw. imo If u r going to use the stock fan ,4 cell is the ticket on the amx . yeah , it's a bit heavier w/ the 1000/4 but it's not a glider anyway and the performance w/ the low drag elevon setup is very impressive. well over 1 to 1 thrust/ weight . by far the most sporty of any of these i have had. the exhaust is perfect for the low blade count , no tube needed. flat out has to be in the 90mph range and unlimited vertical . i like um light but this one is a guided missile anyway and ripping around at 50-60mph at 1/2 throttle and punching it is like a afterburner , straight up. so far no wooshey fan setup compares.

and thanks for the o/t info

chuck.
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Old Today, 12:23 PM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmd View Post
Not with a 4900 Kv motor driving the fan.
+1. imo it's a bit to high for 3's.
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Old Today, 02:41 PM
Registered User
Norway
Joined Dec 2007
1,660 Posts
4S and 4900Kv

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmd View Post
Not with a 4900 Kv motor driving the fan.
Just be careful with the throttle and let cool down before next flight
if You've overheated, then 4S is OK.

If You insist flying full throttle over time adjust endpoints or replace motor
for a e.g. 4300kv.

My solution may not work in realy hot weather but I've tried it up to
+25C and so far it works. In the beginning I smoked a few motors
second flight becuse I did not realize that it was after landing the
heat realy rised.
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Old Today, 03:24 PM
Old !Bold Pilot
kevinkal's Avatar
United States, CA, Gilroy
Joined Nov 2013
643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTAR 600 View Post
A 20% increase in thrust sounds pretty good!
I wasn't expecting the little stock Skyangel Motor to do that well. It didn't seem to get too hot either, sucking 8 more amps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mopetista View Post
Kevin, I think the sound will be great - there was a nice exhaust note on your Mirage already with the 5-blader. I guess it is because the rear is actually opening up, it's even larger than the fan inner diameter, while it shouldn't be larger than 100% FSA (42mm) - witness the great sound of the Hobbyking Zephyr, I think part of it is due to an exhaust actually widening up (and people mounting coffee cups etc. to get a sensible thrust tube...
According to orthodox theory, however, this should be bad for efficiency, so it might be beneficial to reduce to some 45mm at least. How long is the "thrust tube", I mean the distance from the fan rear end to the exhaust? Most probably not worth bothering. Waiting for a nice video of your Mirage 11-blade with great soundtrack :-)
Looks like i'll have to shoot for tomorrow.. I've been tapped to go buy a Christmas tree. When I looked at the Mirage exhaust yesterday, it hit me just how huge it is vs. all the other 50mm Skyangels. I hope it sounds better.. but I have a nagging feeling that the fan/motor needs more finess on the balancing stand, so there may be a little motor whine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas650r View Post
well that's the beauty of the spinner..............u may be able to just add weight inside the spinner and eliminate a step. 2 hours is about right for me after disassembling the motor , lubing the bearings , balancing the motor alone, static balancing the rotor, assembling , clocking , them balancing again running, reclocking , adding weight in the spinner and final tune by clocking the spinner
Wow Chuck, you're darn efficient getting all that done. I can only claim assembly, re-assembly times 10, skipped the static balance on both the motor and fan hub and went straigt to trial weights for dynamic balance. Wow, when I finally put the glob of poster tac in the right spot it was music to my ears. I should put this thing on the Vortex balancer.. probably will need a 2 step process with the spinner.. I'll have to think about this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmd View Post
The fly just fine stock. I've been flying mine for several years with no issues. Search way earlier in this thread for a picture of where the elevator needs to be for neutral with stock CG.
Thanks for the FB! I don't like making things more complicated and heavy than they need to be. But these were so flimsy that caught my attention... I'll go forward with 3S stock power then, stock stabilators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas650r View Post
i never worried about the servos , fwiw. imo If u r going to use the stock fan ,4 cell is the ticket on the amx . yeah , it's a bit heavier w/ the 1000/4 but it's not a glider anyway and the performance w/ the low drag elevon setup is very impressive. well over 1 to 1 thrust/ weight . by far the most sporty of any of these i have had. the exhaust is perfect for the low blade count , no tube needed. flat out has to be in the 90mph range and unlimited vertical . i like um light but this one is a guided missile anyway and ripping around at 50-60mph at 1/2 throttle and punching it is like a afterburner , straight up. so far no wooshey fan setup compares.
and thanks for the o/t info
chuck.
I can't imagine how this missle will "fly" with the weight of a 4S setup. Those are the smallest wings I've ever seen! Lol.. reminds me of a F-104. I'm planning to build it light and simple to start... mods to follow. I know these little skyangel EDFs run very nicely on 4S.. so perhaps I can place a battery in there that doesn't require counterbalance. I do have some fat little 850mAh 45-90C 4S NanoTechs.. should be enough C for the stock fan on 4S. They're 100g... vs. the stock 3S 65g. I'll probably need to swap in a 30A 4S ESC too. So, 35g addt'l battery plus ~10g addt'l ESC = 45 g increase in AUW.. that's 15% more than stock.
I'm about to review tailerons. I don't like the aileron linage on this thing.. always something.
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Old Today, 03:42 PM
Old !Bold Pilot
kevinkal's Avatar
United States, CA, Gilroy
Joined Nov 2013
643 Posts
AMX Taileron Setup. Fix Ailerons with shipping tape?

I'm planning to setup taileron only control of a stock AMX. For those who have done this setup, could you please tell me how you fixed the ailerons? I was thinking of using packing tape, else glueing in some filler slivers on either end of the ailerons.. or both.
Thanks!
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Old Today, 03:47 PM
Registered User
Vienna, Austria
Joined Apr 2007
2,141 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkal View Post
I'm planning to setup taileron only control of a stock AMX. For those who have done this setup, could you please tell me how you fixed the ailerons? I was thinking of using packing tape, else glueing in some filler slivers on either end of the ailerons.. or both.
Thanks!
filler sliver work for me, I try to avoid tape since the paint will come off with it in case you need to remove it (or it removes itself)

EDIT: There isn't much talk about cooling lipo and ESC in this thread. I made some cooling holes on most if not all of my jets, in case of the AMX the gunports can be drilled out, the air is sucked through into the duct, so no exit openings are needed...
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Last edited by mopetista; Today at 04:14 PM.
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Old Today, 04:18 PM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkal View Post
I'm planning to setup taileron only control of a stock AMX. For those who have done this setup, could you please tell me how you fixed the ailerons? I was thinking of using packing tape, else glueing in some filler slivers on either end of the ailerons.. or both.
Thanks!
look back at my posts on the setup , but yeah , very simple and smooth/ low drag.

i just used packing tape , 1 piece / wing . the standard width works perfect . length wise along the t.e. . start on top and rap around to the bottom. pins them and seals them
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Old Today, 04:22 PM
chuck
santa barbara, CA
Joined May 2009
4,328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkal View Post
I wasn't expecting the little stock Skyangel Motor to do that well. It didn't seem to get too hot either, sucking 8 more amps.


Looks like i'll have to shoot for tomorrow.. I've been tapped to go buy a Christmas tree. When I looked at the Mirage exhaust yesterday, it hit me just how huge it is vs. all the other 50mm Skyangels. I hope it sounds better.. but I have a nagging feeling that the fan/motor needs more finess on the balancing stand, so there may be a little motor whine.


Wow Chuck, you're darn efficient getting all that done. I can only claim assembly, re-assembly times 10, skipped the static balance on both the motor and fan hub and went straigt to trial weights for dynamic balance. Wow, when I finally put the glob of poster tac in the right spot it was music to my ears. I should put this thing on the Vortex balancer.. probably will need a 2 step process with the spinner.. I'll have to think about this one.


Thanks for the FB! I don't like making things more complicated and heavy than they need to be. But these were so flimsy that caught my attention... I'll go forward with 3S stock power then, stock stabilators.


I can't imagine how this missle will "fly" with the weight of a 4S setup. Those are the smallest wings I've ever seen! Lol.. reminds me of a F-104. I'm planning to build it light and simple to start... mods to follow. I know these little skyangel EDFs run very nicely on 4S.. so perhaps I can place a battery in there that doesn't require counterbalance. I do have some fat little 850mAh 45-90C 4S NanoTechs.. should be enough C for the stock fan on 4S. They're 100g... vs. the stock 3S 65g. I'll probably need to swap in a 30A 4S ESC too. So, 35g addt'l battery plus ~10g addt'l ESC = 45 g increase in AUW.. that's 15% more than stock.
I'm about to review tailerons. I don't like the aileron linage on this thing.. always something.
fwiw , w/ the 4cell 1000 the amx balances perfect no weight w/ the stock fan and motor.

the static balance gets it close , but i dont spend much time there anymore , mostly spinning balance.
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