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Old Oct 20, 2014, 12:53 PM
micro- modding madman
United States, VA, Charlottesville
Joined Aug 2014
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Originally Posted by chopperscott View Post
On my last trip to the lhs I bought a very small diameter cf rod for exactly that purpose. I've been looking at attachments in this thread for bracing ideas. Is there a generally accepted best way?
I use a technique called micro bracing- I'm sure others have their own unique way of doing it. Micro Bracing works exceptionally well for me, and it can be completely concealed by just painting over the carbon fiber.

I think I posted pics a few pages back, or you can also see one or two pics here: http://microstrengthrc.weebly.com/st..._Products.html
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 01:13 PM
micro- modding madman
United States, VA, Charlottesville
Joined Aug 2014
131 Posts
Found the post. Only has one picture, though... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=10524

I can probably take more if needed.
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 01:24 PM
Aaaah...........Napalm!
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USA, TN, Oak Ridge
Joined Apr 2004
515 Posts
Is the bowed rod along the leading edge of the vertical stab glued on, or some other method of attachment? I HAD seen this pic a while back, and really liked the clean look. Thanks for any tips. Also just ordered a couple stock spare props. I'm not looking for anything other than nice scale flight from this little plane.
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 01:31 PM
micro- modding madman
United States, VA, Charlottesville
Joined Aug 2014
131 Posts
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Originally Posted by chopperscott View Post
Is the bowed rod along the leading edge of the vertical stab glued on, or some other method of attachment? I HAD seen this pic a while back, and really liked the clean look. Thanks for any tips. Also just ordered a couple stock spare props. I'm not looking for anything other than nice scale flight from this little plane.
I use CA to attach it with tape on the ends to hold it in. You need to really take your time and do it CAREFULLY- I messed up a bit on my current one, and you might be able to see the CA spill along the horizontal stab, and I destroyed about 2 or 3 tail sections before I got it right.

It's a great mod if you do it right, but you really have to take your time- you can't rush it.
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 01:39 PM
Aaaah...........Napalm!
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USA, TN, Oak Ridge
Joined Apr 2004
515 Posts
Maybe I shoulda got an extra couple sets of tail feathers! Did you glue it in sections, as in a little bit at a time?
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 01:41 PM
micro- modding madman
United States, VA, Charlottesville
Joined Aug 2014
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Originally Posted by chopperscott View Post
Maybe I shoulda got an extra couple sets of tail feathers! Did you glue it in sections, as in a little bit at a time?
Yes, just a little bit after a little bit after a little bit.

Your main enemy is time- and I made the mistake of trying to rush and get it over with. It's much easier to do conventional 'glue over foam' carbon bracing, but I think that the micro bracing with everything incorporated into the tail is not only nicer looking, but also lighter and more effective
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 01:51 PM
Aaaah...........Napalm!
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USA, TN, Oak Ridge
Joined Apr 2004
515 Posts
Anything else braced on the tail, or does the pic show the end result? Nothing on the vertical stab? Also, was your cg adversely affected with the extra weight on the tail?
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 01:54 PM
micro- modding madman
United States, VA, Charlottesville
Joined Aug 2014
131 Posts
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Originally Posted by chopperscott View Post
Anything else braced on the tail, or does the pic show the end result? Nothing on the vertical stab? Also, was your cg adversely affected with the extra weight on the tail?
I had no added weight with the bracing, there was no change in flight characteristics at all. If you were to do a taping layer, it would change the weight but wouldn't make a noticeable change in CG at all. I've got a fully braced tail section (Didn't tape the vertical stab though...) and it flies great. Straight into the ground WOT, and the only damage to the tail section was the little crease you can see in the picture.

The vertical stab, elevator, and rudder braces are a bit more difficult, because of the fine cutting involved. You have to cut all the way through the rudder and elevator, then insert the carbon and then glue it back up.

For the vertical stabilizer I drilled a hole through the center of it with a needle and then inserted a vertical rod of carbon going into the stablizer from the fuselage. This one I really can't get a picture of...

I'll see if I can get a pictures of the rest of them.
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 02:00 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Julezwatts View Post
Just out of curiosity... how CAN you waterproof the electronics?
You can't make the electronics truly waterproof, thanks to the open-frame linear servos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperscott View Post
Still trying to get mine sorted out. Got the aileron servos installed, and the 70/30 throw was correct without having to reverse anything.... How much elevator travel should I see in this thing? It doesn't seem to deflect up or down very much at all.
Due to the scale-size tail-feathers, the CC needs all of the elevator & rudder authority you can give it. Move the pushrods to the innermost holes on the elevator & rudder. Also move the aileron pushrods to the second hole out. Use full rates on all channels, and add a bit of expo to mellow things out around center-stick, if needed. Also, reduce servo travel to 95-98% as a preventative measure against servo binding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Phillipps View Post
Had a couple of nice flights with my CC now lovin this little plane
nibble speed wise, quite aerobatic and can fly slow. A question on
flaps, seems she doesn't fly much slower with or without flaps,
maybe it's just my old eyesight, be nice to get an airspeed indicator
on her.

Was thinking about gluing some extra strips on the flaps and making
them bigger, would this make them more effective or ruin my CC?

Thank you.........
Peter,

Along with the other suggestions - also make sure that you're not using any down-elevator mix with the flaps, as that just makes the plane fly faster that it should for a given flap setting. CG location also has a dramatic effect on the plane's behavior when the flaps are extended. The flaps become less effective as the CG is moved forward from the sweet-spot. They're more effective when the CG is at the sweet-spot. As the CG is moved aft from the sweet-spot, the flaps quickly become overly effective & cause the plane to feel 'ballooney' & disconnected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperscott View Post
FINALLY got my maiden in on this little beauty! Pretty much non eventful, handled great in the 5-10mph winds here yesterday. Of course I ordered a float set and a spare tail set. Wind got up under the wing while taxiing around and flipped her upside down, folded top of vertical stab. No problem, just straightened it back up and flew some more. Just figured I better have a spare on hand, and we'll reinforce the new one when the time comes to replace. I do need to order a couple spare props, the one mine came with was already in poor shape at best. I already have the added tundra tire mod, so from what I understand, the um yak 54 prop is the way to go? I'm not sure what prop is on it right now, may be stock, but maybe not. Also gonna do the magnetic wing here before long. I've noticed mine has no hole in the windshield, so I'm assuming mine is one of the first released? Should I vent some air inside the fuse to keep my brick cool, or go with it as is? Thanks for any tips you guys feel I need to go with.
Congrats on your successful maiden! The Yak prop is definitely the best match for the airframe with either the 2500Kv or 2300Kv motor. It's also a direct fit.

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Originally Posted by Julezwatts View Post
The Yak prop will work, but it is designed to be used with a 3000Kv motor, not a 2500Kv one....
The Pitts/Yak prop was not actually designed for the 3000Kv motor, per se. Rather, it was designed to be a good match for the Pitts & Yak airframes when they're powered by the 3000Kv motor. But it is also the best match for this airframe when it's powered by the 2300Kv or 2500Kv motor. And the 3000Kv motor is the worst match for this airframe, given the current selection of commonly-available UMX-sized props. Remember - for optimal performance, the prop must also match the airframe, not just the motor - and the motor must also match the airframe, not just the prop.

The Pitts/Yak prop is an excellent match for this airframe with the 2500Kv and 2300Kv motors, as it puts the thrust-curve right in the middle of the CC's natural speed range. Due to its much greater thrust & considerably lower pitch-speed, it's definitely the best prop if you want the plane to fly the most scale-like circuits with either motor, and it's also the best choice if you want to do the most scale-appearing Super Cub-style aerobatics with either motor. (Assuming that you don't fly at higher elevations.) With the factory prop or 5030, only 30-35% throttle is needed to fly at normal cruise speed with a stout pack at lower elevations. That's way down on the thrust-curve. Normal cruise is around 50-60% throttle with the Pitts/Yak prop, so the plane flies with much more authority at closer to scale speeds. With far more thrust available at a considerably lower airspeed, the plane can also do much closer to scale-appearing vertical maneuvers with the Pitts prop, because there's enough low-end grunt on-tap to power through loops, stall-turns, and other vertical maneuvers on thrust alone - without having to rely on airspeed like you do with the factory prop & the 5030. In fact, there is so much thrust on tap that you can use throttle-management on up-lines to make the plane appear to labor near the top of vertical maneuvers such as stall-turns & loops. Plus, the considerable increase in prop-braking allows you to keep airspeed in-check on downlines.

Joel
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 02:07 PM
micro- modding madman
United States, VA, Charlottesville
Joined Aug 2014
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
The Pitts/Yak prop was not actually designed for the 3000Kv motor. It was designed to be a good match for the Pitts & Yak airframes when they're powered by the 3000Kv motor. But it is the best match for this airframe when it's powered by the 2300Kv or 2500Kv motor. Of course the 3000Kv motor is the worst match for this airframe, given the current selection of commonly-available UMX-sized props. Remember - for optimal performance, the prop must also match the airframe, not just the motor - and the motor must also match the airframe, not just the prop.

The Pitts/Yak prop is by far the best match for this airframe with the 2500Kv and 2300Kv motors, as it puts the thrust-curve right in the middle of the CC's natural speed range. Due to its much greater thrust & considerably lower pitch-speed, it's definitely the best prop if you want the plane to fly the most scale-like circuits with either motor, and it's also the best choice if you want to do the most scale-appearing Super Cub-style aerobatics with either motor. With the factory prop or 5030, only 30-35% throttle is needed to fly at normal cruise speed. That's way down on the thrust-curve. Normal cruise is around 50% throttle with the Pitts/Yak prop - therefore the plane flies with much more authority at closer to scale speed. With far more thrust available at a considerably lower airspeed, the plane can also do much closer to scale-appearing vertical maneuvers with the Pitts prop, because there's enough low-end grunt on-tap to power through loops, stall-turns, and other vertical maneuvers on thrust alone, without having to rely on airspeed like you do with the factory prop & the 5030. In fact, there is so much thrust on tap at low throttle settings that you can use throttle-management on up-lines to make the plane appear to labor near the top of vertical maneuvers such as stall-turns & loops. Plus, the considerable increase in prop-braking allows you to keep airspeed in-check on downlines.

Joel
Huh. I always assumed that the stock prop was optimized for the stock motor. Thanks for the insight (once again).
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 02:54 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julezwatts View Post
Huh. I always assumed that the stock prop was optimized for the stock motor. Thanks for the insight (once again).
You're welcome! Remember - the prop & motor combo also needs to match the airframe in which it is installed. And a given prop is only a good match for a given airframe & powerplant at a certain altitude. (That's why the majority of full-scale prop-planes are equipped with variable-pitch props.) As is the case with nearly all RC planes, you can nearly always find a prop that's a much better match for your particular elevation & flying style than the one that comes with the plane or is recommended in the manual. In fact, it is very common for pilots of larger-scale RC planes to go to the flying field with an assortment of props for each of their planes.

The factory 5" x 2.75" prop is simply a compromise that works adequately with the 2300Kv & 2500Kv UMX motors in their respective airframes, when flown in a typical manner at typical elevations. The GWS 5030 outperforms the 5" x 2.5" prop in pretty much every application because it's simply more efficient. The 2300Kv/5043 is the best well-proven, reliable choice for top-speed on 2s in airframes such as the Beast 3D, Pitts, Sbach, and Yak. The 3000Kv/Pitts/Yak prop combo is the overall thrust champ. Hence, why they chose that combo for the heavier Pitts & all-out 3D Yak. But my recent testing has shown that the 3000Kv/5043 is the fastest of all on 2s in the slippery Sbach & Yak airframes. However, that combo would be a terrible match for the CC's low-speed airframe.

Joel
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 09:16 PM
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Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperscott View Post
Is the bowed rod along the leading edge of the vertical stab glued on, or some other method of attachment? I HAD seen this pic a while back, and really liked the clean look. Thanks for any tips. Also just ordered a couple stock spare props. I'm not looking for anything other than nice scale flight from this little plane.
Chopper, the prop on my CC is a bit rubbery and has endured dozens of pretty hairy crashes. IMHO what dosen't stand up well to nose impact is the prop adaptor. I've broken 3-4 of them now. At $3-4 a pop, it's very handy to keep a spare in the box.

I also carry some small screw drivers, an Xacto knife and a roll of scotch tape, allowing me to swap out a broken adaptor in minutes at a crash site (provided not too much else is mangled beyond recognition). In your first fuselage split, a couple inches of really sticky white cloth tape inside, just above the battery box, might stubbornly hold the top and bottom together. Xacto knife cures that too.
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 09:20 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
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Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by chopperscott View Post
On my last trip to the lhs I bought a very small diameter cf rod for exactly that purpose. I've been looking at attachments in this thread for bracing ideas. ...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1683386
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Old Yesterday, 06:31 AM
Fly, tinker, fly, tinker....
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United States, WA, Snohomish
Joined May 2012
176 Posts
E-Flite UMX Carbon Cub SS

After my my plane took a swim a few days ago, I fired everything up and it all works great! I think I found the culprit to the unexpected nose dive-- the nano 300's can slide way up into the cowling, and I think my Velcro broke free. Just needed a little drying time and all seems well. And I discovered that the floats are awesome for landing on the grass!

I moved the flap control over to the FM switch and it makes it much easier to reach. I also finally got rid of the stock prop and mounted the 5030. Big difference in my opinion. It seems to have much more throttle authority and climbs great.

My vertical is reinforced with a strip of clear packing tape over the LE and one on the rudder TE. Seems to work well.
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