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Old Nov 06, 2013, 03:12 PM
Awenda Helicopters
Love the Lama's Avatar
Canada, ON, Braeside
Joined Oct 2013
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Discussion
4F200LM "Lama" experience/help wanted

hi, i've been through an old thread when Walkera released their 4F200LM approximating a scale Lama SA315B. that thread has not seen any action for a while so i thought i'd start a new one, especially since these birds are being packaged up with the Devo tx

that older but very valuable thread can be found here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1412871

start on page 4 and pay attention to posts by AC, a Canadian dude out of Montreal. i am pursuing many of his suggestions.

please submit any other modifications and improves you have experience with.


as for me, i am having some issues that i have not been able to resolve with the distributor; but have good info from various posts on different RC heli message boards.

i have moved "down" from a 450 size CP to give this little beauty a try. mechanical phasing is fixed on these birds. i am having the following issues out of the box with these Devo8s settings:

mode 2
swash = 1 Servo Normal
reverse servo settings:
Elevator : NORMAL
Aileron : REVERSE
Throttle : NORMAL
Rudder : REVERSE
Gear : NORMAL
Pitch : NORMAL
Gyro : NORMAL
AUX3 : NORMAL

static test indicates proper swash movement with cyclic input

from the attached photo #1, you can see that pitch rod (yellow) is leading its blade by 90 degrees. the blade (yellow) over the boom does not change pitch with forward cyclic input (the swash tilts forward so their is no displacement of this pitch rod) .. all good

not withstanding that we are not dealing with a perfect gyroscope, precession should have the rotor disk respond approximately 90 degrees after the swash input. in this set-up then, the rotor disk inclination should be in the same direction as the swash. there are no flap hinges and the stock CF blades are pretty stiff

now, run-up test is as follows:
- forward cyclic (elevator) causes the helicopter to roll left
- backward cyclic = roll right
- right cyclic (aileron) = pitch forward
- left cyclic = pitch backward

any comments/suggestions ?

regards,
mike
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Last edited by Love the Lama; Nov 10, 2014 at 06:57 PM. Reason: update initial info and context
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Old Nov 06, 2013, 03:22 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,486 Posts
You are aware this model was discontinued about 2 years ago and not many people bought one, for a number of reasons? That is the reason for the inactivity of the other thread. You might want to look for an ESky HBCT head assembly. It's much stronger and has flapping hinges. Beyond swapping heads, I can't remember much else, except you need to upgrade servos.
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Old Nov 06, 2013, 04:11 PM
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United States, WA, Twisp
Joined Sep 2013
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Don't know anything about this particular bird, but it sounds to me like a the ail. and elev. channels are swapped, either on the rx or in the tx. Good luck.

Dave
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 05:09 AM
Awenda Helicopters
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Canada, ON, Braeside
Joined Oct 2013
50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
You are aware this model was discontinued about 2 years ago and not many people bought one, for a number of reasons? That is the reason for the inactivity of the other thread. You might want to look for an ESky HBCT head assembly. It's much stronger and has flapping hinges. Beyond swapping heads, I can't remember much else, except you need to upgrade servos.
thanks for the heads up, B14. yep too bad. i think if you took care, did some upgrades like AC has and i am pursuing currently, you can have a nice machine.

with the installed rx now being the ".-D" and being shipped with the Devo tx, there may be room for some more sharing and caring.

best
LTL
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 05:11 AM
Awenda Helicopters
Love the Lama's Avatar
Canada, ON, Braeside
Joined Oct 2013
50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by daved20319 View Post
Don't know anything about this particular bird, but it sounds to me like a the ail. and elev. channels are swapped, either on the rx or in the tx. Good luck.

Dave
thanks, Dave. working on it. mechanics are correct.

Mike
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 10:10 AM
Cranky old fart
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Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,486 Posts
I had a friend who had one of these helis and replaced the electronics and head and it was great after that. I think he used a ZXY flight controller, Spectrum Orange receiver and Devo 8 transmitter with firmware upgraded. I sold him the HBCT head assembly, blades and hardware. I gave him some ESky servos but they weren't any better than the stock ones. It's such a nice, realistic looking model. CF blades and a rigid head really take a toll.
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 12:18 PM
Awenda Helicopters
Love the Lama's Avatar
Canada, ON, Braeside
Joined Oct 2013
50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
You are aware this model was discontinued about 2 years ago and not many people bought one, for a number of reasons? That is the reason for the inactivity of the other thread. You might want to look for an ESky HBCT head assembly. It's much stronger and has flapping hinges. Beyond swapping heads, I can't remember much else, except you need to upgrade servos.
hi again B14.... just a follow-up. do you think that "on the bench" i am suffering from the gyro not being able to do it's job ? .. possibly generating positive feedback and unsual orientations relative to cyclic stick input ?

perhaps a solution is for me to defeat the gyro < 50%

thanks also for the Esky head advice. i am working hard on making this pretty little bird a little more durable and reliable

best,
mike
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 12:23 PM
Awenda Helicopters
Love the Lama's Avatar
Canada, ON, Braeside
Joined Oct 2013
50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
I had a friend who had one of these helis and replaced the electronics and head and it was great after that. I think he used a ZXY flight controller, Spectrum Orange receiver and Devo 8 transmitter with firmware upgraded. I sold him the HBCT head assembly, blades and hardware. I gave him some ESky servos but they weren't any better than the stock ones. It's such a nice, realistic looking model. CF blades and a rigid head really take a toll.
if the info is handy, can you spec me out the HBCT head and the blades you mentioned ?

many thanks !
mike
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 12:47 PM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
21,486 Posts
ESky is basically dead in the USA and the HBCT never sold well because it doesn't have a 3 axis gyro, so it was very hard to fly. I can give you a link to the parts:

http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/in...83e9cb48e42948

You need head assembly, blade holders, blades, swashplate, linkage and washout assembly, for sure. It's got a very nice floating head design.

Walkera has always been pretty bad at flight controllers. It takes several versions and upgrades to get them right. Some of their newest models are better, but are expensive. For what they cost, you can buy a better after-market setup, if you have a decent transmitter.

You might want to take a look at the Blade 300X airframe. You can buy one complete for around $50 and I think it will work to upgrade your Lama. Parts are easy to find, too. Only problem is it only has 2 blades.
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 08:35 PM
Awenda Helicopters
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Canada, ON, Braeside
Joined Oct 2013
50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
ESky is basically dead in the USA and the HBCT never sold well because it doesn't have a 3 axis gyro, so it was very hard to fly. I can give you a link to the parts:

http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/in...83e9cb48e42948

You need head assembly, blade holders, blades, swashplate, linkage and washout assembly, for sure. It's got a very nice floating head design.

Walkera has always been pretty bad at flight controllers. It takes several versions and upgrades to get them right. Some of their newest models are better, but are expensive. For what they cost, you can buy a better after-market setup, if you have a decent transmitter.

You might want to take a look at the Blade 300X airframe. You can buy one complete for around $50 and I think it will work to upgrade your Lama. Parts are easy to find, too. Only problem is it only has 2 blades.
many thanks for the information. the bird is apart and the upgrades are underway
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Old Nov 07, 2013, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Love the Lama View Post
hi again B14.... just a follow-up. do you think that "on the bench" i am suffering from the gyro not being able to do it's job ? .. possibly generating positive feedback and unsual orientations relative to cyclic stick input ?
This is what it could be. The gyro on the 4F200 does not function properly until the heli is in the air. It is thought that it may not function when the throttle is off. As a result, it is very easy to trip over the 4F200 when trying to take off.

The gyro on the V200D03 is better and I think this could be the same gyro on your lama. It is completely possible that there is nothing wrong with your heli. I would ask for more information on the V200D03 thread.
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Old Nov 08, 2013, 12:29 PM
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Joined Feb 2013
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Sable

Hi

It's interesting reading. A lot of different meanings.

I own a blue 4f200lm and after I learned how to setup the heli, it flies great with original parts. I didn't have to change anything.

After I fine tuned mechanicly it it flies in the livingroom without problems.

;ake sure that the swaschplate leans forward when you want to go forward. And leans to the left side when you want to go to the left.
When you have this correct. Make sure that you have aileron, rudder and elev. set to cero. You find this in the function menu "monitor". Finetune with swithces below an on the side of the controlls.

The gyro is great. My settings are midposition on all potmeters. Do your settings in the radio With expo and DR.

Only thing you can be disturbed by is the problem the transmitter have with reciver startup. I allways have to startup transmitter and reciver at the same time. But if I dont put of the transmitter an change battery the gyro sometimes goes Wild. It sometimes thinks that zero aileron/elev it's not zero and wants to go sideways og forward with cero stick input. ALWAYS "boot" both, then you have no problem. And if you have problems "boot" again.
Also make sure that you have correct settings for tail gyro. Try borth 40 or 60 so you see the differens. Head hold is the easyest setting I think it's <50.

I adjust expo diffrent now. When I first learned to fly I had expo at 40. And DR to only 40 to calm Down the heli down.
Now I use DR at 125 to get allot out of the bird. (only outside!)

Tip. Cheapest part that I have found:
http://www.hobbyone.com

I have changed main gears and rudder gears alot when I learned to fly this beautiful heli
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Old Nov 08, 2013, 07:08 PM
Awenda Helicopters
Love the Lama's Avatar
Canada, ON, Braeside
Joined Oct 2013
50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman123 View Post
Hi

It's interesting reading. A lot of different meanings.

I own a blue 4f200lm and after I learned how to setup the heli, it flies great with original parts. I didn't have to change anything.

After I fine tuned mechanicly it it flies in the livingroom without problems.

;ake sure that the swaschplate leans forward when you want to go forward. And leans to the left side when you want to go to the left.
When you have this correct. Make sure that you have aileron, rudder and elev. set to cero. You find this in the function menu "monitor". Finetune with swithces below an on the side of the controlls.

The gyro is great. My settings are midposition on all potmeters. Do your settings in the radio With expo and DR.

Only thing you can be disturbed by is the problem the transmitter have with reciver startup. I allways have to startup transmitter and reciver at the same time. But if I dont put of the transmitter an change battery the gyro sometimes goes Wild. It sometimes thinks that zero aileron/elev it's not zero and wants to go sideways og forward with cero stick input. ALWAYS "boot" both, then you have no problem. And if you have problems "boot" again.
Also make sure that you have correct settings for tail gyro. Try borth 40 or 60 so you see the differens. Head hold is the easyest setting I think it's <50.

I adjust expo diffrent now. When I first learned to fly I had expo at 40. And DR to only 40 to calm Down the heli down.
Now I use DR at 125 to get allot out of the bird. (only outside!)

Tip. Cheapest part that I have found:
http://www.hobbyone.com

I have changed main gears and rudder gears alot when I learned to fly this beautiful heli
hi norman123 ! your information is most appreciated. i have solved things now and am a happy with progress. i have now decided to do some upgrades to settle this bird down abit and make it more durable and reliable. i am mostly interested in scale flying and not 3-D so i shed the CF blades and am using a nice set of wooden blades (for a TREX 250).

by the way, i believe HH is >50% and the light on the rx will be solid

i have followed the modifications that AC (Always Crash) made on his lama plus i am now pursuing some advice posted here by an ex Esky HBCT pilot.

so i'll keep the thread updated with a final list of modifications, part numbers and photos.

happy flying

mike
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Last edited by Love the Lama; Nov 08, 2013 at 07:20 PM. Reason: add comment
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Old Nov 08, 2013, 07:09 PM
Awenda Helicopters
Love the Lama's Avatar
Canada, ON, Braeside
Joined Oct 2013
50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
This is what it could be. The gyro on the 4F200 does not function properly until the heli is in the air. It is thought that it may not function when the throttle is off. As a result, it is very easy to trip over the 4F200 when trying to take off.

The gyro on the V200D03 is better and I think this could be the same gyro on your lama. It is completely possible that there is nothing wrong with your heli. I would ask for more information on the V200D03 thread.
thanks zadaw. things are starting to come together

mike d.
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Old Nov 09, 2013, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love the Lama View Post
hi norman123 ! your information is most appreciated. i have solved things now and am a happy with progress. i have now decided to do some upgrades to settle this bird down abit and make it more durable and reliable. i am mostly interested in scale flying and not 3-D so i shed the CF blades and am using a nice set of wooden blades (for a TREX 250).

by the way, i believe HH is >50% and the light on the rx will be solid

i have followed the modifications that AC (Always Crash) made on his lama plus i am now pursuing some advice posted here by an ex Esky HBCT pilot.

so i'll keep the thread updated with a final list of modifications, part numbers and photos.

happy flying

mike
Great.
It's Nice to see that you have solved the problem.
A while since I read the old tread. Didnt remember the tail shaft fix. I will try it to.
Seems Logic !!
Because when the copter were New I flew 8'. Now I do only 5' to make sure not to og below 20% on the battery.
I use a nano tec. Did not modify anyting to make it fit. (1500mA)
8' with new heli were drained compleatly. I'we learned that this is not a god idea

Why move down from 450? Why dont fly both?
I do both 550E and 4f200lm. Greath both
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