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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:56 PM
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I have never use the APP's but they are a popular RC connector and work very well from what I have read but for me I love soldering and would never use a crimped connector.
as peter said do your research now and select a connector to use from now on. for me I use ec3's and ec5's for my small stuff, 60amps or less, over 60amps gets xt150's I love these connectors, they are a true 6mm bullet connector with a nice thick plastic jacket.........learn the difference between a bullet and a bannana connector..........bullets are best
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
electric studies show crimping is aways better especially at higher currents Pete. Solder wins in the smaller circuit setups.

Why, solder only serves as a mechanical connection of wire to connector the same as crimping.

Only you can add issues applying heat, it can be reheated and fail and can add resistance rather maintain the connections quality.

Crimp physically locks a form of connector with full contact both on the sides of a wire and the ends. But you have to have the right crimper for the connector used and it needs to be done cleanly, even cut of the wire end, to optimize the connection.

Solder can get the connection more easily when done correctly and need no special tool. Its just susceptible to fail.
Thanks Max, I knew you would come through with some info! Do you have any experience with them? Are they worth getting/using on say a 85-100 amp application?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DamonH View Post
Thanks Max, I knew you would come through with some info! Do you have any experience with them? Are they worth getting/using on say a 85-100 amp application?
Ah ya well read on. The thing I don't do is ignore manufacture ratings that get tested with common electric standards. When they say 75 amps they say it for a reason. Everyone follows the, if it doesn't burn up we're good method.
Thats like ignoring the light bulb rating on your lamp and then not wonder why your electric bill is slightly higher.

So I wish APP would have a wider range of smaller connectors, but they don't. So while I'm all for crimping, I have to optimize with the in between.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 05:16 PM
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Hmmm.
Soldering gives 100% contact area, for the area of the connector 'inlet' and the wire used.
Crimping cannot do that. If you have 6mm of wire into the joint, it can only crimp X % of that ... 60% ? They never crimp 100% of it.
Thus a crimp based connector must be quite a bit larger to get the same surface area AND all its 'extra paraphenalia' (housing size, surface area etc) for the adequate crimping of its current rating. Fine in 'unlimited space' situations, like most higher power places are.... but not in modelling.

Then mechanical failures of crimps, all too often not quite done right.... or motions detract from whatever level of joint you did get.
Solder is rock solid... if you know how to solder properly of course. That is not hard, but not many people do know all the details. Though even 80% well done is still going to suffice (eg slight dullness etc) without any issue.

If you have used the correct connector for the current, and wire, and soldered them 'properly' then soldering will never strike any issue in its use.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Hmmm.
Soldering gives 100% contact area, for the area of the connector 'inlet' and the wire used.
Crimping cannot do that. If you have 6mm of wire into the joint, it can only crimp X % of that ... 60% ? They never crimp 100% of it.
Thus a crimp based connector must be quite a bit larger to get the same surface area AND all its 'extra paraphenalia' (housing size, surface area etc) for the adequate crimping of its current rating. Fine in 'unlimited space' situations, like most higher power places are.... but not in modelling.

Then mechanical failures of crimps, all too often not quite done right.... or motions detract from whatever level of joint you did get.
Solder is rock solid... if you know how to solder properly of course. That is not hard, but not many people do know all the details. Though even 80% well done is still going to suffice (eg slight dullness etc) without any issue.

If you have used the correct connector for the current, and wire, and soldered them 'properly' then soldering will never strike any issue in its use.
No need the theorize with your range of knowledge. There is a reason why its standard practise in a wide range of environments. Look at any space program, military standard etc. they all use crimp and post. The highest end ESC's use post clamps.
Regardless of solder or crimp your surface area would be the same. You have the outside and the tip to work with. Some crimp connectors don't use all of this but most connections are still just to the outer circumference.

I've been in those thread arguing this and the post that stood out to me is that in Germany and a number of other nations, its not just for convenience, its a required standard that solder not be used. When you read the finding as to why you realize why its a standard that many keep.
Otherwise solder isn't used but a high grade alloy well above the standards of solder. More or less welding.

And I should add which is more efficient isn't the concern.... its which is more mechanically sound. Ratings can be adjusted by the gauge used. But one is still more prone to failure above the other.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Ah ya well read on. The thing I don't do is ignore manufacture ratings that get tested with common electric standards. When they say 75 amps they say it for a reason. Everyone follows the, if it doesn't burn up we're good method.
Thats like ignoring the light bulb rating on your lamp and then not wonder why your electric bill is slightly higher.
+1 on that
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 05:58 PM
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Pretty well all models are pushing more Amps down the chosen wire gauge than optimal anyway.... it is just impractical to use the 'correct' wire gauge. So they just use smaller gauge, with silicone shielding to protect from the excess heat. Not that you should use it to THAT temp, but most are running 'warm'. But if you feel ANY temp then the gauge was not truly adequate.
In models you have to work within constraints. But the solder joints are like a 0% detriment to that equation.

This was a totally irrelevant analogy....
"Thats like ignoring the light bulb rating on your lamp and then not wonder why your electric bill is slightly higher."
The point/issue of over-spec is like:
"Ignoring the current specs on a switch, using it in a higher current application, and then it goes up in smoke" (or a wire lead etc....nothing to do with power bills!)
The reason you can't use a 100w bulb in a 75w "lamp" (it if even matters at all) is the HEAT they are allowing for... it will damage, or burn, the shade etc. It has nothing to do with wiring etc.
It COULD.... if they used very very thin wires etc, but they never do... generic stuff (eg typical lighting twin core) can do the 100w with ease too. They are quoting for a reason of HEAT.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:00 PM
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Max & Pete,

Thanks I guys gave me an idea, a connector that you first solder then crimp, . Now to take the idea to the tv show " the shark tank"
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:05 PM
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I used to crimp and then solder car 'eye' type connectors.
Crimping alone is just rubbish...

In most high power applications (I used to work on high power UHF/HF and radar stuff in the RAAF) they are all crimped... but that is for EASE, and the connectors are way over the size they could otherwise be. The crimp/connection part is approx 50% of the wire/connector 'overlay'. 50% of the space/size is wasted. But they of course assure a 100Amp use has 100Amp of 'connection' (probably 150Amps capable really).... but it took "200Amps of space" (or more) that could have been done if not a crimp type connector.
But they have tons of space to spare, so it isn't important in that case at all.

Models 'care'... solder wins hands down.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:15 PM
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Has anyone ever used one of these balancers?
http://www.lipoly.de/index.php?main_...03&language=de
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:47 PM
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Pete, you missed the composite of my comment. Both are happening. Heat is why they rate house hold appliances yes, but now in the world of fluorescents and all that save the earth stuff, the extra heat of a higher wattage bulb above the raw material ratings of the design, that heat is energy waisted, the bill goes up because of inefficient devices.... the equal to your amps out the battery not going to the motor.
Not sure if they have Energy Star rating in OZ but same idea follows this too. Better efficient devices reduces your over all bill which is directly match to watt consumed to do the same job.

So if you ran a lamp with a rating that could handle the higher wattage bulb, the energy watts used would be less than the overrated scenario to get the same lumen's.

And yet we constantly are trying to do it with RC setups for some reason other than weight. Which is why I just side with just get a connector and wire that fits your demand. You've heard my comments on matching the gauge wire of the battery you use and that most ESC use 12 gauge but would do better to cut those back and use a heavier gauge unless weight is a concern. Its also why I wish all ESC makers would just use post clamps so that you could match the proper gauge without the extra solder, crimp or what ever points.

The reason V8, and I assume you just threw that in there for fun to stop Pete and I from spinning into a big argument, Solder and Crimp isn't used together is the difference of materials. Gold plating over mystery metal under heat with a wide variety of solder grades can and does lead to corrosion and fail. Because the standards are there particularly for the safety of human lives it's not allowed and also explains why solder fails under certain conditions where crimp doesn't.
I don't make the standards but I see the wisdom in them.

Crimping is rubbish.... Pete you're funny! May be just use a professional grade crimper and connectors and you'll be one of the converted.

Either will do for our application because there are no humans on board and we are not sending them into battle or space sooooooooooo..... the arguing is irrelevant. Just gauge your setups accordingly.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:49 PM
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32 Euro....
Uses dual magnets...
I made my own, pretty much the same as that.
Use rare earth magnets ($1) some wood ($1) and a normal prop balancer - for the shaft and cones ($4)....

But... any cone system is fraught with error, and very few (if any) make decent enough cones and shaft to be truly accurate. Magnets bearings mean the system has zero friction effectively, so any error (outside of the fan) shows up notably. eg imperfect drilled and tapped cones, or slightest bend in a shaft - or not even seated correctly in the fan by yourself.

So better is to use the exact shaft of the actual fan, for the pivot. eg 6mm... 8mm.... but then you need to add 'points' the their end - which needs care to do accurately too! (spin a shaft in an electric drill against an electric grinding wheel, or device - erases 'centralising error', so you can make highly accurate points yourself).

32 euro.... or get a Hobbyking US$10 one...
The cones are the shortfall in most of these mass produced things.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:54 PM
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Which reminds me of my home made balancer....
The prop balancer cones were not perfect. So I had to machine those to be as accurate as I could anyway. Which is actually very hard to achieve.
Using the correct shaft size is a much better way. (get motor shafts to suit, and/or sleeve them).
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:03 PM
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Max,

Ya it was all for and giggles, lol! Kinda knew where this was discussion was headed, but thanks for explaining why the 2 wouldn't work never knew that.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:06 PM
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32 Euro....
Uses dual magnets....... produced things.
Actually Pete you just gave me an idea on this....though disassembling is an issue....

Does anyone sell larger magnets with a mount to the spinner nut and armature shaft?

You could pull the armature mounted to the fan etc and balance the entire fan, collette and armature all at once. That would take care of some of the out of balanced motors fan etc.

Something that TamJets mentioned to is that there is also longitudinal imbalance. I always wondered why a mini fan on the end or back of the motor to both cool and help balance.
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