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Old Aug 29, 2015, 02:24 PM
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S033g to Spektrum AR400 conversion

For anyone interested, I will be working a conversion of a Syma S033g to Spektrum AR400 and Blade CX4 3-in-1 ESC/mixer/gyro with separate 10amp 2way ESC for tail motor. Parts are in transit as of now and will be arriving next week. Will be using a Spektrum DX4e for Tx. Haven't decided what to do with unused ailieron channel yet.
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Old Aug 29, 2015, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bvrrocks5150 View Post
For anyone interested, I will be working a conversion of a Syma S033g to Spektrum AR400 and Blade CX4 3-in-1 ESC/mixer/gyro with separate 10amp 2way ESC for tail motor. Parts are in transit as of now and will be arriving next week. Will be using a Spektrum DX4e for Tx. Haven't decided what to do with unused ailieron channel yet.
Hi bvrrocks, I wish you luck trying to sort out this heli , I and Jim Lee tried a few ideas a few years ago with limited success.
I still think Its a good looking bird and a nice little piece of engineering but of course the cheap -rubbish electrics let it down.
Mine has been sitting (retired) for some while but I'd love to get it working reliably one day.
It occurred to me recently that I used to have a twin prop electric boat which was steered using a plane's "V" tail mixer , each connected to an ESC. When the left stick was moved side to side one motor would speed up and the other would slow down. The motors were counter rotating and so of course were the props.
Left stick up and down just accelerated both at the same speed.
Now , could this work with a co-ax heli. With a decent 2.4 tx - two esc- a "V" tail mixer and a very small esc controlling the tail motor from the right stick?
It maybe possible to use a cheapy stabilizer like the Orange one to help with control too.
What do you reckon?
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Old Aug 29, 2015, 04:16 PM
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Right, I been talking to Jim Lee while I was working a Dh9118 radio conversion. The radio system had problems with left turn function. I'm going to use the Esc/mixer from a Blade CX4 on this conversion, and with the DX4e/AR400 radio set, I should have bullet-proof radio setup.
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Old Aug 30, 2015, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by drambuidhe View Post
Hi bvrrocks, I wish you luck trying to sort out this heli , I and Jim Lee tried a few ideas a few years ago with limited success.
I still think Its a good looking bird and a nice little piece of engineering but of course the cheap -rubbish electrics let it down.
Mine has been sitting (retired) for some while but I'd love to get it working reliably one day.
It occurred to me recently that I used to have a twin prop electric boat which was steered using a plane's "V" tail mixer , each connected to an ESC. When the left stick was moved side to side one motor would speed up and the other would slow down. The motors were counter rotating and so of course were the props.
Left stick up and down just accelerated both at the same speed.
Now , could this work with a co-ax heli. With a decent 2.4 tx - two esc- a "V" tail mixer and a very small esc controlling the tail motor from the right stick?
It maybe possible to use a cheapy stabilizer like the Orange one to help with control too.
What do you reckon?
Back to what you said, I had contemplated using an esc/mixer from an Ares coaxial Huey, but thought it a bit pricey. I went with the CX4 ESC/mixer because #1, Spektrum compatible... #2, CX4 is not much smaller than S033g and figure it should be able to handle the current load (12 amps per motor)... and #3, I found my CX4 ESC/mixer for $8.99 on EBay. Can't go wrong there. It's 11.1v powered, so it will give the S033g ridiculous throttle response. (I already tried putting 11.1 to the motors.... WOW!!) Wont need full throttle all the time, so loading should still be nominal and hover point will require less stick. Esc/mixer has adjustable center trim and gyro gain for heading-hold.
I considered same Idea of boat esc/mixer once also. The cheap 10 amp 2-way (forward/reverse) rc car ESC should be more than plenty to run the tail rotor, and I may end up using a resistor to cut voltage down so it wont kill the little motor or try to flip the heli up on its nose! (7 inch tail prop on mine!) I'm anxious to get started, but Esc/mixer wont arrive till mid week. What is the cheap Orange stabilizer you mentioned?
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Old Aug 30, 2015, 11:53 AM
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Waiting for parts......
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Old Aug 30, 2015, 12:53 PM
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Yet another advantage (if this conversion works), the AR400 has a programmable failsafe throttle setting during bind procedure. Part throttle can be programmed in to soft land if signal is lost or out of range. This Rx is only $29.99 and is no bigger than a S033g fly-bar weight!
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Old Aug 30, 2015, 12:55 PM
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Yet another advantage (if this conversion works), the AR400 has a programmable failsafe throttle setting during bind procedure. Part throttle can be programmed in to soft land if signal is lost or out of range. This Rx is only $29.99 and is not much bigger than a S033g fly-bar weight! This is a bonus for space and weight. Antenna is long enough to get it to outside of heli for best reception.
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Old Aug 31, 2015, 08:48 PM
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3 in 1 controller arrived today. Ran initial funtion test of 3-in-1, AR400, and S033g (no main blades) and everything works so far. I got into the esc and checked the numbers on the mosfets. They are 10 amp nominal/13 continuous/100amp pulsed output each with 2 parallel per channel (a/b), so each side should be good for minimum of 20 amps. Still waiting for 11.1 li-po to arrive so I can run a full hover test. I'll be working mounting location/configuration this evening.
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Old Sep 01, 2015, 10:48 AM
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Still waiting on 11.1v lipo...... 7.4v is too close to LVC for anything but short spool-ups. I decided to mount the electronics in the rear of the frame to utilize the wasted space and protect things. The new 11.1 lipo will likely be a bit heavier than the 7.4, so moving things toward the rear will help with COG. The 2-way ESC for the tail motor is still another week out for arrival..... dammit.

Update: 11.1v LiPo scheduled for delivery today from what the tracking number report says.
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Old Sep 01, 2015, 10:16 PM
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11.1v LiPo arrived.... It's a little smaller than I expected. It fits perfect in the battery tray on the S033g, but it being lighter than I expected, I'll need to move the 3-in1 and the AR400 Rx up front to get CG centered....also for easier access to esc trimmers (gain/center). I was already set up with Dean's plugs, so all I had to do was plug in battery zip-tie it in place, and run open-air hover tests.
There was a slight breeze this evening, so hovering was a bit problematic with no tail control. After a few short runs and setting gain and center trim on 3-in-1, I have it fairly well calibrated. Throttle response is good, turn response is good. The motors got a bit hot during stationary (locked-down) throttle runs, but during actual flight the motors didn't seem abnormally hot.... if not slightly cooler than normal. Did not get a solid "full pack" run to confirm overall temp.
So far, this project seems to be shaping-up to expectations. Without the 10amp ESC for the tail rotor, there's not much else I can do aside from properly mounting the electrics and cleaning up the wiring, balancing CG, and otherwise preparing to plug in the tail ESC....... when it arrives.... from friggin CHINA.
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Old Sep 02, 2015, 10:05 PM
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I nearly completed Rx/ESC mounting. Have yet to splice in battery leads for tail ESC when It arrives. Added vent holes in sides, and bottom of 3-in-1 and in tray I made from a PC tower CDrom bay blank. I Mounted a 40mm 12v fan underneath for pull-thru venting of 3-in-1 ESC to get direct airflow on the MOSFETs.
There is maybe a 1 forward bias to CG now, but should go neutral when I install tail ESC and wiring..... when it finally gets here. I assume the thing has to go through US Customs processing or something to get here.
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Old Sep 03, 2015, 01:01 PM
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Wow! I'll definitely have to avoid getting close to LVC on this one! I was playing with the gain on the 3-in-1 and went to LVC..... Lipo almost didn't recover. Had to isolate and manually charge a cell back to 3.7v before my balance charger would see it.
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Old Sep 03, 2015, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvrrocks5150 View Post
I nearly completed Rx/ESC mounting. Have yet to splice in battery leads for tail ESC when It arrives. Added vent holes in sides, and bottom of 3-in-1 and in tray I made from a PC tower CDrom bay blank. I Mounted a 40mm 12v fan underneath for pull-thru venting of 3-in-1 ESC to get direct airflow on the MOSFETs.
There is maybe a 1 forward bias to CG now, but should go neutral when I install tail ESC and wiring..... when it finally gets here. I assume the thing has to go through US Customs processing or something to get here.
Looking good bvrrocks, well done!
Can't wait to see how she performs when the last part of the jigsaw puzzle arrives.
Disregard what I said about the Orange stabilizer, I hadn't realized your 3in one contained one .
It would be good to find better quality motors eventually since the original so3's were 12v and were then changed to preserve the motors ,so I read anyway.
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Old Sep 03, 2015, 05:08 PM
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Looking good bvrrocks, well done!
Can't wait to see how she performs when the last part of the jigsaw puzzle arrives.
Disregard what I said about the Orange stabilizer, I hadn't realized your 3in one contained one .
It would be good to find better quality motors eventually since the original so3's were 12v and were then changed to preserve the motors ,so I read anyway.
Check out Promax 400 series motors. www​.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-10.html
I'm considering getting a set if/when I wear out the stock motors.
Tail ESC arrived...... may not get to install it today though...... busy.
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Old Yesterday, 02:54 AM
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Tail ESC installed. I should have known it would be a bit quirky being as its for a ground vehicle, braking function and all, but it works. I had to reverse the elevator servo channel on the DX4e and wire the motor reverse to get correct forward/reverse bias more forward dominant. The high/low servo rate switch functions as a high/low speed switch like the original Syma radio. The ESC is 4.8 to 8.4v and goes into protect mode if I try to go 11.1v. I tapped into the balance charger plug on the LiPo to get 7.4v and at only 1amp draw at full tail thrust, won't bother the LiPo much ..... I'll make up a voltage regulator and hardwire for 11.1v later. I might use 5v regulator out of an old 12v/usb phone charger. The tail rotor thrust is plenty at 7.4v if not overkill (7 inch prop)..... I'll find out tomorrow when I can finally do a proper full-function test flight and finish calibrating the 3-in-1. Worst thing I foresee is having to balance main and tail rotors to remove vibration that might throw-off the rudder gyro a little, and I might need a new outer main shaft. It has a slight wobble from a few gnarly crashes last year.
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