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Old Yesterday, 10:17 AM
RV7guy
Chandler, AZ
Joined May 2004
278 Posts
Some good points

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Originally Posted by WBFAir View Post

Or for that matter lets look at this, why does Futaba charge what they charge for it?

They charge what they charge as primarily they have their costs to make it an get it to the seller they sell it to. Then each tacks on their costs to get it to a place to sell it to you.

Now should they all lower their prices to a say 25% loss just because no one is willing to pay what it costs them?

Again, I do understand the realities of supply an demand, but just trying to explain my point.

Its actually kinda funny as if I were a reseller of something new, I would be selling it for what say Tower sells it for an no one would look at me an say all the things you are saying, but buy something brand new and never use it but look to sell it as a private person, and suddenly its value is 25% less then what I paid for it?

For that matter too, if that's its actual value based on what you are saying, why are you paying Tower 25% more? I mean I get all the things you can say about that, but is more of a rhetorical statement.

Basically again, I get I will never get what its worth because no one will pay that much. An while I know I started this, perhaps I should end it too as its way off topic. An all have my apologies for that by the way.

But just am saying if one is going to place a value on something, I just lean more towards what it costs as the proper actual value as that is what it cost everyone to get it to that point...including me. So if its just as new as that, that should be a relatively close evaluation of its value, not what someone is willing to pay for it all just for the simple sake of saying, that's all I want to pay for it.

Or maybe I could make this all simpler by saying, that may be all I can get for it as that is all the market is willing to pay for it....but that's not its value or what it's actually worth.
You make some interesting points. Marketing is a very broad base of realities and perceptions. For RC, on one side, you've got the people who are going to buy on the cheap no matter what. On the other, you will have those who will always go with complete brand loyalty regardless of cost. Also, some will buy the expensive item because it's expensive. Most don't realize there is a vast difference in quality.

I've mentioned this before but the analogy applies. I've built one Van's RV 7 Experimental plane and have another about 3/4 completed. The avionics in the instrument panel provides for a very diverse cost spread. On the cheap side, there is a company that provides a multi featured EFIS (Electronic Flight Information System) that is several thousand dollars less than the next cheapest. On the high end, Garmin, provides an incredible system.

I talked with one of my good friends who has an avionics shop and builds panels for a variety of planes. His panels range from $25K to $250K!!! He's also an avid RC modeler. He uses Spektrum and I'm working on the conversion I asked him how there can be such a diversity of costs between the various EFIS's?

He simply said, "They are cheap for a reason." He went on to say that the only place to cut costs is in the components. The cheaper equipment are using cheaper components to decrease costs and increase profits. He also explained that the profit margin in aviation electronics is not great, especially as the cost rises.

He continued by saying that he has to open up all the RC transmitters he can to look inside. In his shop there is a variety of brand usage. He said when you review the guts of a low end transmitter, (Brand left out) it looks like a toy store transmitter. When you open up a JR, Spektrum or Futaba transmitter the difference jumps out.

As a result, over the years, he has noticed a direct correlation in dependability. Now, he said, with the proliferation of the ultra cheap equipment the bar is lowered to new levels. The guys who have bought on the cheap usually end up joining the fold with more mainstream gear.

Just some thoughts. It shouldn't all be about price.

Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler, AZ
Team Futaba
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Old Yesterday, 11:24 AM
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Joined May 2004
701 Posts
Futaba 14SG

I didn't intend to get the thread off topic but outside hypothetical situations, if no one will buy at your asking price, it's priced too high. I'm not talking about how much something is worth to you, only to a potential buyer.
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Old Yesterday, 11:57 AM
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United States, CT, Stamford
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil_SC View Post
I didn't intend to get the thread off topic but outside hypothetical situations, if no one will buy at your asking price, it's priced too high. I'm not talking about how much something is worth to you, only to a potential buyer.
I understand, but just trying to make the point that its not priced to high, its just others won't pay that much.

$110.00 is about a 12% discount off, which is average sales price from lowest possible Tower price with coupon. Actually best coupon from Tower I have actually seen is $127.98.

Then do a Google search for it an for all the places I found, they all were $139.98.

So for all other places other then Tower, that is a hair over a 21% discount off what many others pay for the exact same thing.

An btw just to note, these are not numbers I have come up with as that is what "I" say its worth, they are the prices it is being sold for.

All in all as I said, perhaps people want to say its worth less as they have gotten it here for less, but I personally still just disagree that is because that is what its actually worth.
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Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM
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United States
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBFAir View Post
Or maybe I could make this all simpler by saying, that may be all I can get for it as that is all the market is willing to pay for it....but that's not its value or what it's actually worth.
Tell that to your Real Estate agent.
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Old Yesterday, 12:10 PM
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Ashburn VA
Joined Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad_vy View Post
You need remove unnecessary intermediate points (2 and 4). Highlighting the right hand value and holding (not tapping) RTN will remove the point and straighten the line.
OK. Still stumped here. I can't get it to take a flat throttle curve out from mid stick up. Also, when I check the monitor screen the values fluctuate like the visual curve and don't track with the 77% I put in.
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Old Yesterday, 01:11 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
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Go to the second page and disable the trim of the center point that uses the knob
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Old Yesterday, 02:41 PM
Julian T
Fleet, UK
Joined Jun 2005
491 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil_SC View Post
I didn't intend to get the thread off topic but outside hypothetical situations, if no one will buy at your asking price, it's priced too high. I'm not talking about how much something is worth to you, only to a potential buyer.
Key point Cost and value are two different things. An accountant knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing Because no one is prepared to pay an asking price does not mean the value of the object is diminished - only its cost. In fact, if the seller decides not to sell even its cost is not diminished! How often have you bought a 2nd hand item feeling you got great value - presumably because you paid less than you felt its worth to be?
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Old Yesterday, 06:30 PM
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United States, CT, Stamford
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regalmat View Post
OK. Still stumped here. I can't get it to take a flat throttle curve out from mid stick up. Also, when I check the monitor screen the values fluctuate like the visual curve and don't track with the 77% I put in.
That is weird. Don't know if someone here told you to take out those other points, an perhaps they are right and or have a reason for that.

But for my helos as I run a flat curve in normal, but as its normal I want a zero level at bottom stick, I just run the first point at zero, then all the other points at the same % level I run it at. An my line looks normal an acts the way it should.
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Old Yesterday, 09:33 PM
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Ashburn VA
Joined Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RsX_ View Post
Go to the second page and disable the trim of the center point that uses the knob
Yup. that was it. I never would have figured out I had a trim active.
Thanks
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Old Yesterday, 09:34 PM
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Joined May 2004
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It's this simple; if nobody is buying your stuff at the price you're asking, it's priced too high. You either have to drop your price or offer them more for the same price (add a servo or Life RX batter).
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Old Yesterday, 09:35 PM
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Sorry guys. This is my last post about the cost/price thing.
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Old Yesterday, 10:26 PM
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Joined Feb 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnbarrie11 View Post
...He continued by saying that he has to open up all the RC transmitters he can to look inside. In his shop there is a variety of brand usage. He said when you review the guts of a low end transmitter, (Brand left out) it looks like a toy store transmitter. When you open up a JR, Spektrum or Futaba transmitter the difference jumps out.

.... over the years, he has noticed a direct correlation in dependability. Now, he said, with the proliferation of the ultra cheap equipment the bar is lowered to new levels. The guys who have bought on the cheap usually end up joining the fold with more mainstream gear.....
Ding, ding, ding. Correctamundo. Personally, I won't use dime-store radios in my multi-thousand dollar multirotors. Yes, I have trouble explaining this to "newbies" with el-cheapo radios at the field. It's simply not all about color touch screens and ease of programing. And furthermore, there are differences within a brand depending on model. The less expensive "F" and "S" radios simply aren't built as well as the high-line ones. There's a reason "F" is number one in RC and has been for 50 years, or so. Thanks, I'll stick with the heavy stuff.
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Old Yesterday, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorPilot07 View Post
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the RF output (in mW) of the 14SG is? Just wondering. Thanks!
Most all of the 2.4 gear I have surveyed to date is right around 100mW or so. I doubt the 14SG is any different. Note that this figure is significatly higher than most WiFI tranceiver devices which are in the 20-50mW range.
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Old Yesterday, 10:44 PM
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Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regalmat View Post
OK. Still stumped here. I can't get it to take a flat throttle curve out from mid stick up. Also, when I check the monitor screen the values fluctuate like the visual curve and don't track with the 77% I put in.
Something is wrong with your curve. The left values are stick position (1- 0%, 2-25%, 3-50%, 4-75%, 5-100%), the right values are curve output (1-22%, 3-77%, 5-77%).

>5 100% 77%
>4 -- --
>3 50% 77%
>2 -- --
>1 0% 22%

If you have problems with 14SG programming, read book from Malcolm Holt:
http://www.amazon.com/Futaba-14SG-Pr.../dp/B00BMM9J7A
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Last edited by vlad_vy; Yesterday at 10:51 PM.
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Old Today, 04:25 AM
Registered User
Brighton UK
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad_vy View Post
Something is wrong with your curve. The left values are stick position (1- 0%, 2-25%, 3-50%, 4-75%, 5-100%), the right values are curve output (1-22%, 3-77%, 5-77%).

>5 100% 77%
>4 -- --
>3 50% 77%
>2 -- --
>1 0% 22%

If you have problems with 14SG programming, read book from Malcolm Holt:
http://www.amazon.com/Futaba-14SG-Pr.../dp/B00BMM9J7A

Much as I appreciate the free promotion of my book, please note that it only deals with fixed-wing programming. Although much of the general material contained in it is equally relevant to helicopters it would not be of any help in this particular case.

As explained in post #4506 above, the problem here was caused by the default RD trimmer which occurs in the Throttle Curve menu when Helicopter Model Type is chosen. The book does not cover those menus which only apply to helicopters.
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