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Old Mar 07, 2014, 01:19 PM
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United States, FL, Altamonte Springs
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Originally Posted by Dauntless Stan View Post
No...quit exaggerating. In 2012, the most recent year for which I could find statistics, there were only 23 aviation incidents which resulted in at least one fatality. It was the safest year in civil aviation since 1945, and aviation will only get safer, statistically speaking.
You are talking about large scale commercial flights. In Florida, there's some idiot crashing his Cessna into a strip mall every few days.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1617399

http://www.wesh.com/news/central-flo...crash/24629950
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 01:22 PM
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NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
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Here's a hero. Rich Hansen. A retired full scale helicopter pilot with a lifelong commitment to working within the system to make it better for everyone. He is the AMA's government relations head and has literally devoted years of his life to this issue for way less than the going rate to try and build working relationships with the regulators and politicians that develop the laws we live under. Thanks to him and others like him the recent Monster Jet event was allowed to proceed in CA. The first time in history that a waiver had been granted to RC during a TFR resulting from presidential travel.

Why don't a lot of people know who he is? He doesn't go out in public and pull stupid and dangerous stunts in a thinly disguised attempt to stroke his ego. I wager a lot of Trappy's fanboys will have occasion to reflect on their poor choice of idol as the years go by and life teaches the inevitable lessons that only come with experience. Some on the other hand will choose to live on immaturely with nothing but their own selfish motivations to sustain them.

We all live with our choices.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 02:15 PM
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"I wager a lot of Trappy's fanboys will have occasion to reflect on their poor choice of idol as the years go by and life teaches the inevitable lessons that only come with experience."

@ Steve Graham: Do you "make a choice for an idol" and change how you behave based on that idol? I don't. I doubt very many people do (except for teenagers who are still learning).
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 02:26 PM
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Id never fly where trappy flies. Im too old for media drama but Id click on any vid he uploads

not a fanboy but I saw alot of rc sages get their doom predictions wrong and I still think the faa can come back and define lots of stuff, not necessarily on the back of trappy how about on the backs of one million dji drones, the whole thing begs for some eventual regulation. I just thought we all whipped on trappy too fast.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 02:37 PM
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Joined Aug 2012
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what has Rich Hansen done for the FPV community? remember the topic at hand.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 03:28 PM
Redacted per NSA "suggestion"
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United States, VA, Virginia Beach
Joined Feb 2012
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Originally Posted by subaru4wd View Post
A person dies every day in aviation??

Who died yesterday? Is someone going to die today?
You don't think someone died flying yesterday or today, somewhere in the world? The statement wasn't "dies every day in aviation in the US".
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 03:30 PM
Preserve our right to FPV !!!!
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United States, CA, Chico
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Graham View Post
Here's a hero. Rich Hansen. A retired full scale helicopter pilot with a lifelong commitment to working within the system to make it better for everyone. He is the AMA's government relations head and has literally devoted years of his life to this issue for way less than the going rate to try and build working relationships with the regulators and politicians that develop the laws we live under. Thanks to him and others like him the recent Monster Jet event was allowed to proceed in CA. The first time in history that a waiver had been granted to RC during a TFR resulting from presidential travel.

Why don't a lot of people know who he is? He doesn't go out in public and pull stupid and dangerous stunts in a thinly disguised attempt to stroke his ego. I wager a lot of Trappy's fanboys will have occasion to reflect on their poor choice of idol as the years go by and life teaches the inevitable lessons that only come with experience. Some on the other hand will choose to live on immaturely with nothing but their own selfish motivations to sustain them.

We all live with our choices.
I think that you are missing a very large percentage of FPV pilots and the opinion we might share on this.......

Like you, many of us would never condone some of the antics or choices that Trappy has made over the years which promote his agenda.... But because I DO condone his decision to defend such a ludicrous case as this, I get labeled a "Fan Boy"??? I don't think so.... The "black and white" utopia you live-in is very obvious from your statements.

The "System" that your hero chooses to navigate is terribly and fundamentally flawed. It's an outright embarrassment and the only way to ever change that is with the rare case like this that shines a momentary light on just how flawed it is.... We can spend "lifetimes" navigating and "working with" the system but that does nothing for us if those with jurisdiction to enforce our laws don't have to obey them.

You spend a considerable amount of time referring to Trappy's colorful past, but not once do you even mention the actual process that everyone else is all talking about here and how it unfolded. Had this been Rich who was assisting one of his pilots through the legal and political web of a process, it probably would have looked frighteningly similar to what we've witnessed.

Trappy "no doubt" has his group of "fans", but what I propose is that there are an awful lot of us out there that "plain and simple" applaud the the landmark case itself.... "no matter if we are a fan of his flying/videos".... Trappy took the time, the significant effort, and the money to fight for a just decision that ALL FPV pilots have a vested interest in, and he won it!! The FAA needs to learn that it is not above the law and that it can not unjustly try to enforce policy statements and bills that have absolutely no jurisdiction over us. It's a slippery slope and had Trappy just paid his fine or let this slide it would have just served to reinforce the FAA's pattern of avoiding due process along with the system that was actually established to make enforceable laws that might really have applied.

It's a step in the right direction and I think we should be able to applaud it without being automatically labeled as a "Fanboy" of a lifestyle or pattern of behavior that we may not subscribe to and has nothing to do with the heart of this matter.

All your banter about idols and escapades without even once discussing the actual decision itself seems to point to your own agenda which is just as useless to this discussion as any Trappy may have.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 03:37 PM
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United States, VA, Franconia
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Les Dorr (who works for FAA) posted on the AMA Facebook page that the FAA will be releasing an "important statement" related to the ruling sometime today.

hmm almost 4pm here in DC on a Friday afternoon? Better hurry...
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 04:07 PM
fly by night
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Graham View Post
Here's a hero. Rich Hansen. A retired full scale helicopter pilot with a lifelong commitment to working within the system to make it better for everyone. He is the AMA's government relations head and has literally devoted years of his life to this issue for way less than the going rate to try and build working relationships with the regulators and politicians that develop the laws we live under. Thanks to him and others like him the recent Monster Jet event was allowed to proceed in CA. The first time in history that a waiver had been granted to RC during a TFR resulting from presidential travel.


We all live with our choices.
Is this guy actively working with government to widen the access to FPV flying today? If he is, then bravo. Helping out jet flyers does nothing to help FPV. If he keeps to himself then how can the wider FPV community know if he is doing any good for them or not? I can tell you this: there are a lot of condescending RC flyers in elected office in the AMA and other orgs that are dissmissive of FPV and some are downright hostile, who would rather limit FPV to nearly unflyable minimum restrictions than to actually advocate for the inevitable FPV revolution (just like how skiers used to put up bluster and political blockades to snowboarders).

I like the current AMA president though. Has a great atittude towards FPV.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 04:10 PM
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United States, VA, Franconia
Joined Sep 2010
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FAA Appeals:

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releas...m?newsId=15894

Quote:
Press Release – FAA StatementPrintShareTweet
For Immediate Release
March 7, 2014
Contact: Kristie M. Greco
Phone: (202) 267-3883


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WASHINGTON, D.C.--The Federal Aviation Administration today issued a notice appealing a decision by an NTSB Administrative Law Judge in the civil penalty case, Huerta v. Pirker.

"The FAA is appealing the decision of an NTSB Administrative Law Judge to the full National Transportation Safety Board, which has the effect of staying the decision until the Board rules. The agency is concerned that this decision could impact the safe operation of the national airspace system and the safety of people and property on the ground."

For more information on UAS operations please visit: http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=76240
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 04:14 PM
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United States, WA, Bremerton
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disregard.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 04:57 PM
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United States, CA, Vacaville
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimdas View Post
Probably. Its a shame as its these multi billion dollar companies like Amazon that are the only ones with true clout who could bring drones into a more friendly public perception.
And think of the marketing potential. They'd only need to deliver a couple of packages to be splashed over every news channel and paper globally.

The potential for a fleet of Amazon delivery drones to collide with causal hobby use drones will be far more likely than a colision with civil or military aviation because they will all be occupying a similar altitude envelope.

Right now, a hobbyist's biggest concern should be the large commercial companies that intend to use drones as part of their services. They have the clout and the money to have regulations written that restrict hobbyist airspace.





Quote:
Originally Posted by glassdogangle View Post
.......

Most FPV flyers have enough wisdom, insight, documented experience (fpv simulators, or full sized aircraft simulators) and experiential talent to operate their craft in a responsible manner.

.......or most other pilot's skill to operate their aircraft in such a way as that no citizen would be harmed.

Bottom line: We don't F around. This is serious business to us. Most operators would concede that if all things failed, we would park that SOB into a tree rather than see it hurt someone else,
The real bottom line is that, while we active participants in this discussion don't F around, any dumbass with $400 can now buy the thing we spent years or months building and/or developing. It dose not even require the skill and knowledge of how to fly an RC aircraft to fly an off-the-shelf-quadcopter with autopilot and RTH functionality.

This is a double edged sword - The up-side is more access to the public means more proliferation of the hobby and will make it more difficult to "outlaw" (for lack of a better term). However the down-side is that more and more unskilled people will get their hands on these and when accidents happen, you can bet media will be all over them.



BTW, I applaud Trappy for standing up to the gubment. "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 06:24 PM
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United States, WA, Bremerton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Graham View Post

He doesn't go out in public and pull stupid and dangerous stunts in a thinly disguised attempt to stroke his ego. I wager a lot of Trappy's fanboys will have occasion to reflect on their poor choice of idol as the years go by and life teaches the inevitable lessons that only come with experience. Some on the other hand will choose to live on immaturely with nothing but their own selfish motivations to sustain them.

We all live with our choices.

OK at the suggestion of others I am putting my comment back.
First and foremost I do not know the gentleman you speak of so it would not be fitting for me to say anything about him, he's probably a great guy. IF he was a helicopter pilot hero then somewhere in his youth he may admit he has done some things that you would be afraid to do today, especially if he's a Vietnam Veteran helicopter pilot (OF which I hold in the HIGHEST esteem, any and all of them).
I just don't like the AMA, NRA, or any other hobby lobby group. They got too big and too political. Great if you want to fly at a field and enforce a set of rules though - some people need that.

Now that said, you can hate Trappy all you want. I'm not here to convince you otherwise. But, what Trappy has done is force the FAA to implement a set of rules for "Drones" that fall under the commercial category.
Is this a bad thing?
NO! I just witnessed someone that claims to have started an aerial videography company fly his PHANTOM on 2.4 ghz right next to a WA State ferry (Pumping out about 5kw of 2.4 for wifi). Claiming to be an aerial photographer as his jello filled video is making me nautiouis.

What's wrong with that you ask?

I live in that city and I look up overhead of what he was filming and watch the 767's come in on approach to SEATAC or to Boeing field (2 miles south). They usually come down so you can look out your window AT the Columbia tower without looking down. It's called "The Jet City" for a reason. I think "Wow, Phantom, Flyaway, straight up, sucked into jet engine".

Now if there were a set of enforced rules that ALLOWED US to get certified, licensed, and PROVEN we would all be a lot safer than every phantom owner in America wanting to start an aerial photography company. I support them wanting to do it but there needs to be a hard fast set of rules in place, not guidelines. THe legality of it is that there were NO RULES but now there will be. Think about how many people are doing FPV, 10,000, 100,000? It's only going to take ONE incident where someone did not do their research.
And I'm sure you have crashed because even with 25 years experience *I* have crashed, just last week in fact

Is Trappy reckless? No, I don't honestly think so. He's done his research when he flies somewhere. You don't get to see that in the videos but I talk to him a LOT about things he has done, I know. I know a LOT about what happened at the Grand Canyon etc. Is he young and daredevil, you bet. So were the wright brothers, Neil Armstrong, Melissa Earhart and a handful of other people that were told not to do stuff because it was dangerous. I can compare them because I know that Trappy does his research before flying places. He has done FAR more good for the hobby than not.
So what about hobby drone pilots - will this affect that because of his case? - Doubtful although you may now have a hard and fast 400' ceiling. Your AMA guy above that you mentioned SUPPORTS that. You can fly 400' AGL all the way to the top of Mt Rainier, should you desire.

So try to keep an open mind. I've done videography locally for charity and brought tears to peoples eyes (911 memorial aerial, a museum ship, a walking trail) - and I have not charged a DIME for these. IF the opportunity presents itself now I fully intend to charge (Businesses not charity). I've had the business license in excess of a year waiting.......

That's all Try not to be a hater and look at how WE acted when we were young. Think I'm going to do a double flip out of a C130 again? Nope, I'm older and wiser. But I did it. Going down face first from 110' up in a Huey? Heck no, I'm scared of heights again! But I did it.

Don't be hatin..because like it or not, 20 years from now there's going to be a show on the History channel and it's going to talk about a man named Trappy as breaking out the first public drones. He was and always will be a part of history now.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 07:59 PM
Citizen #96
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NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
731 Posts
Here's a couple of my posts from earlier today on another forum. They are out of context but still may help to illuminate my position. If they don't sway you thats fine. It's unfortunate but true I guess that this national discussion that is so important gets fractured due to all the different places where it takes place. I don't hate Trappy but I do hold him in extreme disregard for the nature of his efforts. When he was doing his New York flights I became concerned as he was operating way to close and far beyond visual line of sight through airspace I frequently occupy on approach to LaGuardia so I DO NOT agree that he exercises due diligence regarding his choice of venue. I also do not believe that his efforts are in any way a genuine effort to effect change so much as carefully considered publicity stunts.
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Old Mar 07, 2014, 07:59 PM
Citizen #96
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NE Denver, CO
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As stated this just gives us a current legal precedent for what constitutes an aircraft and is therefore subject to all the applicable provisions of the other FAR's.

I would implore all who wish to protect, foster and promote the future for sUAS in this country to continue acting with great care and concern for the privacy and safety of your fellow citizens. We now have a great opportunity to influence the public perception of this technology. This opportunity means we have the chance to shed a positive OR negative light on sUAS. IMO Trappy and Team Blacksheep have done great harm to the image of sUAS and as they are foreigners should be shown the door simply for the fact that they have proven themselves to be dis-respectful guests.

IMO the FAA will likely act quickly in an attempt to close the definition of aircraft to include unmanned systems. They have shown zero inclination so far IMO to act with clarity or in a way that will foster or promote this industry in an inclusive fashion. As such the best thing they could do is to publish a rule which identifies these things with the the goal being separation from other legal users of the NAS. This should include visual line of sight, or a way to positively clear the used space, as well as locations where use of sUAS is inconsistent with their mandate to provide protection for other users of the NAS.

My view as an airman who has made his living in the NAS for nearly 3 decades is that the FAA has neither the resources nor the ability to regulate sUAS in the low strata of the atmosphere away from manned aircraft activities. There needs to be some protection for the traveling public and commercial operators if for no other reason than to provide penalties for interference with them. Again, please be respectful of these groups. The manned aircraft world is too valuable to our nation to tolerate ANY interference whatsoever . As it stands right now Federal law grants civil and criminal penalties for anyone who threatens legal users of the system. As far as protection for unwitting persons or property on the ground that is something left to the purview of local authorities.

The preceeding are my views alone as an individual tasked with protecting the lives of my passengers who pay ticket fees and taxes used to provide safe transportation as well as the regulatory infrastructure used to ensure their safety.
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