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Old Jul 15, 2014, 05:11 AM
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Kingston Ontario Canada
Joined May 2006
198 Posts
Thanks, Paul. This seems like good advice, I will keep your note handy for future reference. Your opinion reinforces my idea and concerns regarding CF use.

I see people treating CF as if it was the solution to most problems. I had
not really thought of your control horn idea.

BTW - I am not Mr. Deerslayer, that is just the name one of my little friends called me after the Great Deer Hunt of 2003 when a nasty big deer tried to kill me on my motorcycle - I'm still here, but she 's not!

Thanks again for your response.
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Old Sep 10, 2014, 05:29 PM
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Joined Apr 2010
2 Posts
Good morning all, Just a quick? question. In the October 2013 edition of RC Model World there were calculations for "motor/rotor/weight" loadings for a single rotor Autogyro. Are there any charts/calculations out there for twin rotor Autogyros? I.E, xxxlb/ft2 X Motor size =, or some such thing.

Kind regards
Taranakiman
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 08:13 AM
Registered User
Paderborn DE
Joined Oct 2004
1,161 Posts
Some Simple Thoughts on Learning To Fly From A Simple Man

I have been following the Auto gyro thread for around a year or so and have now got 4 different models built and flying pretty much successfully. My definition of success is that I immensely enjoy flying them and they stay in the air until I want them to come down 95% of the time, may not always be pretty but it sure is fun.

One thing that has struck me is the amount of times that the same question crops up within the various threads and posts here. Practically every time a new model takes to the skies or when someone new wants to ‘have a go’ the question gets posed.

The question is, ‘how do I fly her and how do I make her fly right hand turns’???

A very valid question and certainly worth asking before you risk your latest pride and joy, however the response tends to always the same and not necessarily productive. You will either get hundreds of posts offering a whole variety of suggestions, most of which will conflict with each other, or you will be met pretty much by silence!!!!!!!!

So why is this?? IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, the problem lies in the fact that we are taking about Auto Gyros (you are probably now thinking ‘well that is ***** obvious, where is this idiot going with this??). Auto Gyros obey the laws of Physics and the theory behind it all has now been thoroughly proven my some of the Gurus on this thread but unfortunately (for us) AGs tend to involve pretty much every law that you care to mention and then some. Not only that but each little piece of the puzzle affects other pieces in different ways making for some incredibly complicated (for me but I am a bit simple) interactions.

So what does this all mean to the guy who just finished building his new masterpiece???

The crux of the matter is that anything that anybody cares to write down as being the definitive way to fly an AG WILL be 100% correct, BUT, ONLY 1% OF THE TIME. So what do I mean by this? Without getting into all of the theory stuff, we have many, many different parameters all interacting when an AG is flying, air speed, rotor RPM, angle of attack of blades, prop wash, trim, C of G (and/or Hang Angle) and even air density to name but a few. We also have our RC system which we use to control (interfere may be a better choice of words) with what our model does and the interaction between the 2 results in the model behaving in a certain way. Simple so far (well it is to me but I am writing this).

The problem which we have is that action A (any given control input) will only result in situation B (what the model does) when C (any of the factors listed above) are at a certain value! To clarify, any movement on the sticks will produce different results unless you model is doing EXACTLY the same thing at the same speed in the same air when you give the control input (assuming that you can give EXACTLY the same control input) which obviously is not going to happen. You can generalise or report what often happens but the minute that someone else with another model of the same type experiences anything different you will get conflicting reports and answers to your question.


So, what we have to do is to get used to using all 4 control inputs balanced together to achieve the desired result. Any blanket statement about using a combination of controls may be correct to a degree but can NEVER fully cover all the bases.

Just to make life even more difficult, turning the model to the left and to the right will also create 2 different sets of results, even for the same given parameters. This is due the fact that the turning rotor WILL react differently when turning with the direction of rotation or against the rotation. Once again the hard and fast rules get very grey and blurred very quickly, EVERY turn is unique and individual but actually, this is what makes these models fun.

What help can I offer then, having painted this picture of doom and gloom??????

Think long and hard about Plan B BEFORE you even connect the battery. What is Plan B???? If you feel in any way uncomfortable about what the model is doing either due to unwanted effects in a turn or orientation problems centre the sticks and REDUCE the throttle. The disk creates quite a drag and the majority of the weight is hanging below it. Without long complicated explanations, sticks in the centre and little thrust (throttle) will (generally, usually, sometimes, hopefully) allow the model to start to descend in a stable attitude. The decent will (should) spin the blades back up and if you feel that you have her under control again increasing the throttle should, may, will, get you flying again, If you don’t get control back just allow the model to auto rotate ‘into’ the ground as this should at least reduce damage to a minimum.

Try to get the model trimmed out before turning, even if it means short hops or ‘powered glides’ landing in a straight line a few times.

Take your time, try to fly slowly straight and level before entering a turn in either direction. I often see videos of people entering turns with the model diving or sitting with the nose pointed up in the air, either of these CAN add to the negative side effects which a turn can produce, don’t risk adding another piece to the puzzle

Two 90 degree turns with a ‘settle down bit’ in the middle are far, far easier to do than 1 X 180 degree. As a turn progresses any negative aspects will amplify, keep you turns small to stop the problems from building up too quickly.

Keep the model comfortably close (loss of orientation has killed many models, even with experienced pilots). Keep your speed down and at a reasonable height flying a gentle rectangular pattern until you get used to her silhouette.

Don’t get fazed about turning left or right. Turning left with an anti-clockwise turning head is a little easier (note, easier, not EASY). Turning the other way can result in more unwanted negative effects, BUT, they just need a little bit more control and coordination to counter. If your field will allow, fly left hand circuits at first and get a bit of height under the disk before trying your first (GENTLE) right turn.

KEEP THE DISK AS FLAT AS POSSIBLE! Without getting all complicated, if the disk is fairly flat (what a stupid statement, the disk is always flat, what I mean is parallel to the ground) the ’unwanted’ or negative effects will not have as much influence as when the model is steeply banked over. When I teach people to fly ‘normal’ fixed wing models they get ‘fined’ (a coffee) for banking more than 30 degrees as this keeps the turns more constant and controlled without having the nose drop. Same rule CAN help here (I did say there are no rules, I know), the turn will be slower and more controlled with less chance of loosing control and/ or orientation.

Don’t believe everything that you read on RC Groups, read it all, consider most of it and pick out the stuff which makes sense. If you have got as far as to be considering your first flights, you will have an idea about both flying in general and about AGs in particular. Just because you haven’t flown one yet doesn’t mean that you won’t be able to weed-out some of the BS.

Remember Plan B

Enjoy,

Paul
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Old Oct 20, 2014, 09:13 AM
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well written, thanks for the thoughts!
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Old Oct 21, 2014, 02:27 AM
BigTradioman's Avatar
United Kingdom, Harpenden
Joined Oct 2009
365 Posts
Makes lots of sense to me.
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