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Old Jul 13, 2013, 01:53 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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New to CAD, help with PDF files

I've decided to try to teach myself some CAD. I've downloaded DraftSite. Now remember this is an old guy trying to learn a new trick!

I want to build a Kraft Super Fli. No kits are available that I know of in "my" size (1/4 scale). I have PDF's of the plans of the full scale version. Those plans are in 1/8 scale and I want 1/4 scale. I do not need some of the drawings on the PDF sheets and wish to copy what i do need and place them in DraftSite and then export to another PDF to have as my plans to build from. I attached a link to one sheet as an example. All i need is the tail surfaces and not all the fittings.

So to my question, finally... How do I import a PDF or copy from the PDF what I need and place it in DraftSite? Can this really be done at all?

I'm sure this will be the first of about a zillion questions.

Thank you in advance!

Ken
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 04:05 PM
Registered User
United States, AZ, Surprise
Joined Jul 2002
397 Posts
Pdf2dxf

Ken, Google heading and pick one that's free. You can translate only one
file at a time, but that's what we have lots of.
John
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 06:40 PM
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United States, FL, Winter Haven
Joined Jan 2008
179 Posts
Hi Ken,
I will try to give you a hand. First, Draftsight can't import (or xref) a PDf file. So what you need to do is to convert the PDF to a PNG or other image type that it can use. I like this free online converter http://convert.neevia.com/pdfconvert/ which can convert most file formats to something else and either email them to you, or you can wait and right click "save as" onto your computer.

Once you have it converted to a PNG, open a drawing in Draftsight and type in imageattach. This will open the reference window and you will select the "attach Image" drop down at the top and select the "attach Image" option. You can now scroll to where you saved the image and click on the file and click "open". You will see a field with a lot of options like scaling, insertion location and rotation angle; for now just click the "open" at the bottom. You should now have the image in the drawing.

From here, you need to know how big the actual parts in the image are, and how big you want them to become. You can trace a line, or just do a dimension on the screen to see what size it is. For an example, lets say the image is 6" and you want it to be 8.5". You want to scale the image up to the size you need by scaling the image. Type in "scale" (or SC) and hit enter. select the image and hit enter. It should say to select a base point, so just select a corner of the image and hit enter. It will ask for a scale factor (if you know that, you can enter it) but we will just hit "R" for reference because we know it is 6" and we need it to be 8.5". It now says to enter reference size so enter 6 and hit enter. It will as for the new length, so enter 8.5 and hit enter. The image will now be scaled up to 8.5".

You can now trace the parts over the image. If you want to turn off the image to see what you have, right click on the reference file name (under the drawing name on the reference tab) and select "unload". To reload the file, right click on it again and select "reload".

Good luck with the drawing, and remember to save your work as you go to keep from having to start over if you mess up.

Scott Smith
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 11:25 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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thanks for the info!! I'll give it a try in the next day or two.

Ken
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Old Jul 14, 2013, 09:56 AM
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Steve85's Avatar
Canada, ON, Kingston
Joined Mar 2004
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Scott,

Thanks very much for this. I've been noodling around with DraftSight but hadn't figured out how to do this yet.

Steve
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Old Jul 14, 2013, 12:19 PM
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United States, FL, Winter Haven
Joined Jan 2008
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no problem guys, glad I could help some. I have been doing ACAD in the civil engineering field for over 10 years with ACAD & C3D, but Draftsight is a pretty close copy at a much better price! I like it because the ACAD commands are 95% usable in Draftsight. Most of the other programs require you to learn a new method of drawing, and that is counter productive for me.

Have fun!

Scott Smith
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 11:08 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScorpionRacing View Post
Hi Ken,

From here, you need to know how big the actual parts in the image are, and how big you want them to become. You can trace a line, or just do a dimension on the screen to see what size it is. For an example, lets say the image is 6" and you want it to be 8.5". You want to scale the image up to the size you need by scaling the image. Type in "scale" (or SC) and hit enter. select the image and hit enter. It should say to select a base point, so just select a corner of the image and hit enter. It will ask for a scale factor (if you know that, you can enter it) but we will just hit "R" for reference because we know it is 6" and we need it to be 8.5". It now says to enter reference size so enter 6 and hit enter. It will as for the new length, so enter 8.5 and hit enter. The image will now be scaled up to 8.5".


Scott Smith
OK.... I did a dimension of the height of the rudder and it came out as (point) .1940. I want it to be 1/4 scale so I entered 13.9063. I checked the dimension and it is now .1944. What the heck did I do wrong? That took me about 6 tries to make it that far

I attached the PDF so you can see what I'm trying to do.

Thanks!

Ken
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 09:42 AM
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ScorpionRacing's Avatar
United States, FL, Winter Haven
Joined Jan 2008
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OK, let me see if I can help. Given the numbers you gave me, this is the steps involved in scaling it up.

1.) Type in "scale" and hit enter.
2.) Select the image and hit enter.
3.) Select a corner of the image and hit enter.
4.) Type "R" for reference and hit enter.
5.) It now says to enter reference size so type .1940 and hit enter.
6.) It will as for the new length, so type 13.9063 and hit enter.

The image will now be scaled up to 13.9063.

The problem with images is that their sizes are relative. In other words, your plan at a 1:1 scale (full 24'x36" plot) is 1/8 of the actual part size. By using CAD to draw the part to the actual size you want, we take those errors out. That is why I use the scale from reference tool; so that we can take any image we want and make it the exact size we need.

Does that make sense?

Scott Smith
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 11:26 AM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScorpionRacing View Post
OK, let me see if I can help. Given the numbers you gave me, this is the steps involved in scaling it up.

1.) Type in "scale" and hit enter.
2.) Select the image and hit enter.
3.) Select a corner of the image and hit enter.
4.) Type "R" for reference and hit enter.
5.) It now says to enter reference size so type .1940 and hit enter.
6.) It will as for the new length, so type 13.9063 and hit enter.

The image will now be scaled up to 13.9063.

The problem with images is that their sizes are relative. In other words, your plan at a 1:1 scale (full 24'x36" plot) is 1/8 of the actual part size. By using CAD to draw the part to the actual size you want, we take those errors out. That is why I use the scale from reference tool; so that we can take any image we want and make it the exact size we need.

Does that make sense?

Scott Smith
It makes perfect sense and I thought I was following the steps you laid out in post #3 Thank you for the help. The steps laid out in the above post should help. If I can't follow those directions, I best give up

I'll give it a try when I get home tonight.

Thank you
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 12:12 PM
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United States, CT, Killingworth
Joined Dec 2005
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Ken, this might help. Just downloaded it from Draftsight.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2al2d30yb...RTED-GUIDE.pdf
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 09:56 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
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Originally Posted by Hemikiller View Post
Ken, this might help. Just downloaded it from Draftsight.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2al2d30yb...RTED-GUIDE.pdf
Thanks...... I think....... I'm for sure, not sure about this whole CAD thing. I want to build an airplane not go back to school. Maybe if I was 45 years younger (58 on Saturday) so my brain still was able to absorb something. Besides CAD is a bit abstract for me. I need pencil, paper and eraser to make this happen I think. To bad I sold my old drawing board and T-Square last summer at our garbage sale

EDIT; OK I figured out what I was doing wrong. I was trying to re-size ONLY the rudder/fin. You have to re-size the WHOLE imported PDF. NOW I understand

I was able to trace the rudder and it came out nice.... well pretty nice. I have a couple of errors but it won't affect the final plan as it will be a one off anyway. As my skills progress maybe I can clean them up a bit.

New question... Can you draw a "line" or parallel lines to represent the size wood that will be used or will each have to drawn separately? I think I want to use 1/4 inch square stock. I looked in the start up guide but did not see what I was looking for.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 09:44 AM
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United States, CT, Killingworth
Joined Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by kenh3497 View Post
New question... Can you draw a "line" or parallel lines to represent the size wood that will be used or will each have to drawn separately? I think I want to use 1/4 inch square stock. I looked in the start up guide but did not see what I was looking for.
One method for that would be to draw the outline of say, your rudder. Then you can use Modify -> Offset command to create the 1/4" width of the wood inside that outline. You'll have to trim the ends to neaten it up a bit. I'm not sure if Draftsight has a Chain Offset command, which would take a lot less time to do a series of the lines.

60% of learning CAD is getting the lingo down so you know what command you need.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 12:17 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Originally Posted by Hemikiller View Post
One method for that would be to draw the outline of say, your rudder. Then you can use Modify -> Offset command to create the 1/4" width of the wood inside that outline. You'll have to trim the ends to neaten it up a bit. I'm not sure if Draftsight has a Chain Offset command, which would take a lot less time to do a series of the lines.

60% of learning CAD is getting the lingo down so you know what command you need.
I'll look for those commands. You hit the nail on the head about the lingo!!!

Thanks!
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 09:58 PM
The Prez....... again
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I'm not quite sure what "chain" off set is but DraftSite allowed me to use just a couple of mouse clicks for each off set line I wanted after setting the offset dimension. In fact I was having so much fun I needed to erase a "few" too many lines

I have the tail surfaces done and will start on the cowl next just to see if my engine (Satio 1.20) will fit wholly within the cowl or not. Then on to the fuse and lastly the wing. I can see the wing ribs giving me fits. I'm not yet sure how to deal with the changing chord of each rib and the change in wing section. Maybe DraftSite can't loft (right term???) the ribs for me.

Ken
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 06:59 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
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Scaleing Issue??????

I decided to take my tail surfaces to have them printed at the local Staples store. After I got them home I measured them and both are a inch short, more or less, of what they should be. I dimensioned the parts in DraftSite and they are correct on the file I took with me. Could I have not gotten the scaling correct when I imported the PDF into DraftSite?

If this is the case, what is the best plan of attack to correct the problem? Other than this little issue, so far things are going reasonably well.

Thank you! Ken
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