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Old Mar 28, 2013, 09:17 AM
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shigetyann's Avatar
centrea Japan
Joined Nov 2006
464 Posts
Hi all, good discutions!

Talking about thrust angle, my opinion is depend on what phase you spot on.
The thrust center and angle, the main wing lift center and the gravity center are not on one line, as ICON is not a stunt plane but a scale seaplane.
My attention is to get smooth transition from taxing to planing and smooth landing on the water. ICON's nose has not enough length from CG to forward.
When you sudden power up at floating or in low speed taxing, it makes nose sedimentation into the water. This is because ICON's thrust center is high enough from the bouyancy center. Its distance is big enough to nose down. The thrust force is to be big rotation power around buoyancy center, thrust up is available for against nose down, I think.
But too big up thrust seems to be not good. If backwash from the propeller doesn't hit holizontal fin, elevator works dificult to nose up.
ICON's horizontal stabilizer mounts on the top of the vertical fin, too up-thrust may not work an elevator control well.

In flying, thrust center and main wing lift center may change according to its flight speed, as ICON's airfoil is not symmetrical. In any speed, suitable elevator neutral position will be found when you want to fly in horzontal flight.
This may be discribed by fluid dynamics balance. I suspect the correct simulation solution is complicated, as you have to calculate in non-constant and disturbed flow in 3D model.
Actually, the balance between weight, lift and thrust power, is exist, as this model plane has enough power.

PS.
My ICON has enough up-thrust though, it's able to inverted flight. Outside loop is impossible, I don't expect, though.

Shige
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 12:24 PM
Fly now crash later
davecrash's Avatar
Canada, ON, Newmarket
Joined Nov 2006
2,248 Posts
Flew my KMP 80" version, Needed lots of up trim for level flight. Winds were lite and had a noticeable tail wag. 500kv motor on 6S 4000mah had tons of power. CG was about 1/4' ahead of the wing spar. This was flown from a grass field.
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Old Jun 11, 2013, 01:33 PM
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lrplin's Avatar
Stockton CA.
Joined May 2007
764 Posts
Maybe move ur cg backward a little bit will fix the issue?
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Old Jun 13, 2013, 01:54 PM
above us only sky
Renfield's Avatar
United States, SC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2006
838 Posts
If anyone is interested, I have all the electronics, prop, batteries, etc. for the 72" NFD Icon A488. All new in box. I bought in December based on KMP promise, couldn't get the plane, and subsequently (since flying the HK Icon) have lost all interest in anything NFD produces or KMP sells.

Cheers,
George
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 09:03 AM
rookie flyer
Croatia
Joined Nov 2010
150 Posts
I wonder why this discussion ended?

I would like this discussion to continue with add of real physics calculations as proof (Force vectors, moments and formulas)!
I believe that experience learned is hard fact but there is so many pusher prop configuration around and they are not the same. Discussions without physics proof does not add to understanding of plane flight especially high wing pusher sea planes.

One cant compare flying wing pusher with high wing seaplane pusher. These two are completely different aircraft.
Now i admit i don't have experience on that mater and braking my head with that for some time. I found so much material over net with NASA (and other) calculations that i immediately got headache

But since i am developing high wing pusher sea plane which is mostly inspired by sweet RC SeeBee plane, i am in need to try comprehend physics behind successful flight.
So please check real SeeBee side view. Propeller stream is tilted down and pushing horizontal stab down in order to counteract nose down moments. More throttle, more nose down moments but greater force applied on horizontal stab to counteract these moments= no trim to whole throttle range.
I believe in that setup but still want to be sure.

Just to add that i contact Mr.Christer Bergström about his scale big RC SeeBee baby's and he confirm to me that on both plane he have zero thrust line.
So explain that

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Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:11 AM
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kitaro's Avatar
Italy, Tuscany
Joined Apr 2006
100 Posts
Front retract gear

Hello
i need to change front retract gear.... where i can buy it? how type of gear needs it?
i think is impossible mounth gear with servo into.... water problem!!

help to all!!
from Italyyy
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 10:28 AM
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lrplin's Avatar
Stockton CA.
Joined May 2007
764 Posts
Hello, I completely remove my front landing gear.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 09:52 PM
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JGuilty13's Avatar
United States, MI, Royal Oak
Joined Nov 2005
1,372 Posts
Do any companies still carry this kit?
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Old Jul 07, 2013, 07:53 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, San Dimas
Joined May 2012
70 Posts
I'm trying to find that out as well. Does anyone know if this kit is still available? I just recently purchased this plane from someone on Craigslist and he didn't have any information on it. Anyone know where I could find a manual possibly? Looking for CG reference points as well as recommended motor battery esc setup. I currently have a 70Amp esc, with a 6s 4000 mah battery and ???I have no idea what motor is on this thing. Its orange but has no markings on it. The guy I bought it from said it was the stock motor, but I question that since there have been a lot of changes done to this thing. If anyone could steer me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
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Old Jul 07, 2013, 09:40 PM
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lrplin's Avatar
Stockton CA.
Joined May 2007
764 Posts
70a Esc will be more than enough with the stock motor. I use 50a with 6s 2650mah, 3 blades 11" prop and it give me 10 to15 mins. I don't have the menu anymore. I don't know the stock motor kv.
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Old Jul 09, 2013, 08:58 AM
above us only sky
Renfield's Avatar
United States, SC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2006
838 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadwake View Post
I'm trying to find that out as well. Does anyone know if this kit is still available? I just recently purchased this plane from someone on Craigslist and he didn't have any information on it. Anyone know where I could find a manual possibly? Looking for CG reference points as well as recommended motor battery esc setup. I currently have a 70Amp esc, with a 6s 4000 mah battery and ???I have no idea what motor is on this thing. Its orange but has no markings on it. The guy I bought it from said it was the stock motor, but I question that since there have been a lot of changes done to this thing. If anyone could steer me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.
Thanks
Google "NFD Hobbies" where it's made and called Icon A440 or go to kondor model products website @ kmp.ca. No one anywhere near the U.S. market has them in stock. The last time anyone reported getting shipments was in September of last year. KMP keeps promising them and keeps coming up empty. Like hens teeth.

If you read through this thread or search, there are tons of suggested motor/esc/prop/battery combos from folks who actually fly it.

Good luck.
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 10:00 PM
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Joined Apr 2005
39 Posts
Has anyone removed the retract gear and can you give a hint on how you did it. I will be using my Icon A5 only for float flying and my gear drags so much I can't get off the water. Since I won't ever use the gear I'd like to remove them and re-balance. Any suggestions would be a great help - thanks
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Old Jul 14, 2013, 08:45 AM
Fly now crash later
davecrash's Avatar
Canada, ON, Newmarket
Joined Nov 2006
2,248 Posts
Tried to take off from water yesterday with my 80". Didnt work, couldn't get enough speed up. Seems like like too much drag from the rear gear.

Update
After I taped up the nose gear hole I could rotate from water in about 30 feet or 10 meters for you metric folks. Looks like I need to make a door for the nose gear.
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Last edited by davecrash; Jul 14, 2013 at 12:32 PM.
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 04:19 AM
rookie flyer
Croatia
Joined Nov 2010
150 Posts
Planing hull must be completely smooth in order to not produce additional drag.
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Old Jul 20, 2013, 08:08 AM
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shigetyann's Avatar
centrea Japan
Joined Nov 2006
464 Posts
Hi all

This is my solution.

I modified the hull and so on

small ICON A-5 this is my solution 小型ラジコン水上飛行機 (3 min 37 sec)
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