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Old May 25, 2016, 09:07 AM
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The M2 feedback thread

OK, go ahead and post your comments about the Mobius 2 camera here.

I have moderator authority here, so stay on topic and stay constructive with your comments. Posts that stray too far with derogatory comments or just taking up posting space with no constructive feedback are not constructive and will be deleted.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; May 25, 2016 at 09:07 PM.
Old May 25, 2016, 09:48 AM
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Nvm. Fixed
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Old May 25, 2016, 11:28 AM
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Looks half decent. Hopefully the development will be as good as M1's.

There seem to be some valid concerns from people but I'm sure they will be answered within time.
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Last edited by JooVuu; May 25, 2016 at 11:39 AM.
Old May 25, 2016, 11:47 AM
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Will a good quality waterproof case be available?
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Old May 25, 2016, 11:47 AM
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I have uploaded the sample clip as-is to Youtube for my own purpose of checking out how bad Youtube re-encodes it. Not to my surprise, macro-blocking level is magnitude worse than original clip (42mbps video vs 6mbps). However, the worse macro-blocking occurs in the beginning where the highly detailed grass in the forward doesn't move in a simple pan/scan motion such that mp4 compression needs a lot of bitrate to handle. Near the end of the clip where the screenshot was posted regarding the macro-blocking on the sky in the original clip, it was smooth slow panning action where bitrate should not be a limiting factor and as evidence Youtube has no problem dealing with that scene without added macro-blocking on the sky. I truly believe the cause of that macro-blocking sky in the original clip was caused by a non-optimal encoding parameter because that behavior is EXACTLY as what I've seen when I choose "fast" instead of "medium" under "Basic->Preset" in the H.264 encoder when I reencode 1080p60 videos.

If I have permission from Tom Frank I can publish the Youtube clip for those who can't download the original. I know it won't be original quality but if viewers keep that in mind it's still better than no clip to see.
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Old May 25, 2016, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
I have uploaded the sample clip as-is to Youtube for my own purpose of checking out how bad Youtube re-encodes it. Not to my surprise, macro-blocking level is magnitude worse than original clip (42mbps video vs 6mbps). However, the worse macro-blocking occurs in the beginning where the highly detailed grass in the forward doesn't move in a simple pan/scan motion such that mp4 compression needs a lot of bitrate to handle. Near the end of the clip where the screenshot was posted regarding the macro-blocking on the sky in the original clip, it was smooth slow panning action where bitrate should not be a limiting factor and as evidence Youtube has no problem dealing with that scene without added macro-blocking on the sky. I truly believe the cause of that macro-blocking sky in the original clip was caused by a non-optimal encoding parameter because that behavior is EXACTLY as what I've seen when I choose "fast" instead of "medium" under "Basic->Preset" in the H.264 encoder when I reencode 1080p60 videos.

If I have permission from Tom Frank I can publish the Youtube clip for those who can't download the original. I know it won't be original quality but if viewers keep that in mind it's still better than no clip to see.
Why dont you use vimeo ?
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Old May 25, 2016, 12:31 PM
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Because I hate it. It's not going to do any better anyways with the minor bitrate difference compare to the magnitude higher 42mbps original video. Other than that YT is everything better than Vimeo for me and my viewers.
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Old May 25, 2016, 12:38 PM
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About discussed h265. Samsung Galaxy S6 and my 3 years old notebook have no any problem in decoding 1080p at 60fps and maximum data rate of the Mobius 2. Nexus 7 and Galaxy Tab 10.1 had not to much lucky.
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Old May 25, 2016, 12:39 PM
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It seems that the M2 will not be as groundbreaking product as the M1 was 3 years ago, but I'm sure it will sell... Even M1 still sells!

However, other manufacturers are coming up with more advanced products these days, like Xiaomi with the Yi 4K, so it seems that the M2 is a little bit outdated even. I think it spent too much time in development...

Of course the form-factor will be a major advantage to most rivals. That's why even M1 still sells.
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Last edited by Fintastic; May 25, 2016 at 04:54 PM.
Old May 25, 2016, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panoramix View Post
Will a good quality waterproof case be available?
There is none under development by Mobius at this time for this camera, but that was also the situation with the Mobius and one was developed by a third party (JooVuu!). I can't say what may come later.
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Old May 25, 2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
I have uploaded the sample clip as-is to Youtube for my own purpose of checking out how bad Youtube re-encodes it.
...
If I have permission from Tom Frank I can publish the Youtube clip for those who can't download the original. I know it won't be original quality but if viewers keep that in mind it's still better than no clip to see.
Sure, go ahead and publish the link since you've done it. Most people will know (hopefully) this seriously degrades these high bit rate clips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic k2 View Post
Why dont you use vimeo ?
Vimeo has taken a big step backwards in recent months with their adaptive streaming and pulling of the ability to display a video clip in it's native full frame size!
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Old May 25, 2016, 01:35 PM
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Here's the Youtube clip (straight upload but re-encoded to 5.8mbp by YT). Original clip (42mbps) courtesy of Tom Frank.

Please note that the macro-blocking's are from Youtube re-encoding. Use this Youtube clip as-is.

M2 FW v1 32 AV Tests (1 min 29 sec)
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Last edited by Race Miata; May 25, 2016 at 02:49 PM.
Old May 25, 2016, 01:46 PM
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Further to my comments about the macro-blocking sky case, I suggest the encoder should focus on not the bitrate (42mbps is more than enough for 1080p60 even with miniquad race scenes) but on the encoder algorithm/parameter. Obviously I don't know the particular encoder in-use but like I mentioned the H.264 encoder I use has a "Basic->Preset" setting where you choose from very slow to very fast mostly resulting in how well the encoder can prevent macro-block for the same scene and bitrate. I hope the encoder in use is similar where tweaking similar parameter will fix that issue.
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Old May 25, 2016, 02:13 PM
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It's probably worth re-posting the M2 info at the start of this thread?

My views are much the same as already posted. The M1 was truly head and shoulders above everything else available at the time, and got even better with firmware improvements and a few physical tweaks. Mine was a 'launch day' camera from the first batch sold, and is still going strong. I am a great Mobius fan and will be watching the M2 with interest. Fingers crossed it will be another great camera

But ... it has way more competition than the M1 did. I already have a Foxeer Legend 1 (1/2.3" Sony sensor) that is Mobius shape/size/weight and does great quality video at 2304x1296 @ 30fps or 1080p @ 60 fps. Plus 16 MP stills, and it has r/c input to trigger the shutter (off, video, still shot). And that is about to be superseded by the Legend 2 with electronic image stabilisation and UHD/4K (38402160) @ 24fps, QHD (2560x1440) @ 30fps, 2K (20481080) @ 30fps, and 1080p @ 96 and 60 fps. Plus Wi-Fi (which I couldn't personally care less about but seems to be popular).

Incidentally there's a huge gap in the market that Mobius could fill if they did a version of the M2 with the lens angled upwards to suit the racing quad community. The FPV racing scene is exploding and a good quality camera that didn't need to be pointed upwards from the frame (or be taken apart and fitted into an aftermarket 3D printed case) would sell like hot cakes IMHO.
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Old May 25, 2016, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
Here's the Youtube clip (re-encoded to 5.8mbp. Original clip (42mbps) courtesy of Tom Frank.

Please note that the macro-blocking's are from Youtube re-encoding. Use this Youtube clip as-is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29R9yDtSGH4
Thanks a lot man

Sadly i went to late for downloading the raw file, but the mobius m2 still have this little thing more in it's videos like the m1 has, even in this youtube version one , i can't tell what it is but i like it

I'm sure like for the m1, the upcoming firmware updates will make it better i'm not worried about that...

Tom i'm also interessed if the low light capacity is better than the m1, what apperture does it have... ?

Please if someone can put the first video that Tom posted with the differences with the m1 it would be great

And i hope the M2 will be sold tomorrow anyway Tom ?
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