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Old Jan 09, 2014, 04:07 PM
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Canada
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Careful!
The perfect and best allrounder J and F ship as the same time??

Just found out that I could get rit of all my specialty models as there is the perfect Alrounder available and this unnoticed for over 3 years now.

Wondering why this Model never became succesfull in competition? and is it still in production ?

Quote:
Sales quote from Vespa:RCRCM Sigma II 3.7m -- Gorgeous!! LPU/AMA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This giant beauty was purchased from Skip Miller Models, expertly built to the best of my ability and has been ripping up the local slopes for 3 years now but it's time for a new home....

Designed to be an all-purpose model and billed as an F3J competitor, it is really shines as a giant F3F slope racer, very similar in design and performance to the Big Ceres, but even bigger. The airfoil is extremely fast and razor thin, transitioning from 8% to 7% (compare with Freestyler3 @ 8.2%-7.9%) yet it is perfectly well behaved and rock solid in the tightest of F3F style pylon turns and aerobatics. A truly marvelous flying airplane.

At 100oz and 8.4ft^2, the 11.9oz/ft^2 wing loading is identical to a typical unballasted modern 78oz F3B model like the Freestyler or Precision but the Sigma can work even lighter air than these due to the higher Reynolds numbers and aspect ratio. Fully ballasted, this monster becomes the most awesome big air rocketship you've ever seen. You haven't sloped until you've done triple vertical rolls with a 3.7m plane. Energy retention is amazing and half-pipes go to the moon. The nice long fuselage and ample tail make this plane track like it's on rails.

This is a very solid model and with countless full-ballast landings in 40mph California desert hurricanes under its belt, yet it has never suffered even the slightest dent or hairline crack. No repairs ever, completely flawless other than a little paint scuffing on the wing bottoms.
or are these attributes choosen just to keep the resale value up


Cheers
Thomas
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 04:44 PM
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vespa's Avatar
Thousand Oaks, CA
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Not sure why you're bashing my ad Waku. The designer of this model intended for it to span the F3B/J range and labeled it as such. This 3.7m version is officially named "Sigma II F3J" and they sell a shortened span version labeled as "F3B". I simply noted that and added my opinion that it is built and flies more like a giant F3F model. Obviously it's not going to be competitive in F3J at 100oz or F3B at 3.7m. Like the Ceres Big that I compared it to, it doesn't seem to fit into any current competition class. It's big, fast, sleek, and fun to fly as a slope aerobat. I think I was pretty clear and honest about that. Apologies if the designer's and my references to F3X models confused you into believing this was going to get you a cup in the World Championship.
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 04:56 PM
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Crestview, Florida
Joined Dec 2005
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The NAN models Xperience Pro at 3.3M and 78oz......

flys the same and is only $1100! I'm on my second one.
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 04:57 PM
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Canada
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Vespa (normaly a name used for italian Mini Rollers)
I'm not bashing, you claimed :' most awesome big air ship, extremly fast' and comparing it with FS3 aso....., therefore some clarification questions should be aloud (not in your self administerd For Sale add)

I just was wondering why nobody used it in F competion.

Could I ask, what was the max weight doing the 'half pipes to the moon'?
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 05:20 PM
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Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
I just was wondering why nobody used it in F competion.
Waku, I suggest you click on the link in my ad and then post your apology here.

The plane was intended for F3J, the airfoil is thinner than the fastest F3B models, and it has a wing loading similar to modern F3B/F models. That makes for an "awesome" sloper as I described. I've never competed with it and I made no claims that it will win any competition class. In fact I deliberately omitted "F3J" from the name in the title because it is clearly not a J competitor. It looks, feels, and flies more like a giant F3F model and that's exactly what I tried to say.
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vespa View Post
Waku, I suggest you click on the link in my ad and then post your apology here.
Vespa

actually I watched the 2 Videos: one shows the model scratching for thermals, it's quite evident that it couldn't compete with better J models as the cruise and circling speed is fairly high.
On the 2 vid some slope flying, but there is some wingflex visable and the speed in the turns isn't awesome.

So for what do you think i should apologize ?

Possibly you have different standards and/ or benchmarks.

BTW your building /upgrades are excellent, but I'm not sure if they can improve the envelope performances of Models
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 06:17 PM
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Crestview, Florida
Joined Dec 2005
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Waku......your assistance please.

Please immediately scour ALL of the sailplane classifieds on RC Groups for ALL KNOWN and even ALL POTENTIAL inaccuracies, embellishments, exaggerations and flat out lies. When finished please post your findings immediately! Why? Because the rest of us know absolutely nothing about RC sailplanes and, are in fact, generally stupid. Thankfully we have someone like you to protect us.
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 07:13 PM
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Waku, I didn't intend to write "it is really shines as a giant F3F slope racer", as evidenced by the typo. I fly F3F and have considered trying this plane in a race but I haven't and therefore cannot claim that it "shines". I meant to say that it's "it's really more like a giant F3F racer" but as you can see I made some edits and didn't get the final wording correct. I've now revised that sentence in the ad and ask that in the future, please PM me if something doesn't seem right.

Anyway, as you can see here Mike Evans won the 2010 Midland F3F Winter league with a Sigma II, beating many reputable models (though no Xperience Pros). Mike has both wing sets and I would assume he raced with the shorter F3B set. My model includes only the long wings but they feature the same airfoil and dihedral, making this a very fast and agile model for 3.7 meters. I'm sure it would "shine" as an F3F racer in 3.7m form and though it's unlikely to beat a fleet of Freestylers, I never claimed that it would.

You bashed my Minivec ad simply for being too well built and now you're starting some argument that the Sigma "can't compete with better J models" and isn't "the perfect and best allrounder". What's the issue here?
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 07:56 PM
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Canada
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Quote:
Please immediately scour ALL of the sailplane classifieds on RC Groups for ALL KNOWN and even ALL POTENTIAL inaccuracies, embellishments, exaggerations and flat out lies
Tappet
why should I, most (99% ) adds are reasonable and fair and don't claim their is a 'Uebermodel' that goes to the moon for sale.
Simple questions like ballasted AUW couldn't be answered from Vespa instead I get bashed.

Too bad you don't have a chance to compare or provide a valuable comment since there aren't many slopes in FL to 'fly big air rocketships' .

Anyway this is my last post in this tread, everyone can make his own assumptions why for sale posts should be more reasonable and more on reality based.
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 08:17 PM
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The ad was funny to read. I thought the same thing....

"Faster than the best f3f racers, out thermals the best f3b gliders in the world..," and it went on and on and on and on.




.
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 09:18 PM
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This thread just isn't going to amount to much, it's like arguing about which beer is best.
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Old Jan 09, 2014, 09:34 PM
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Upvector's Avatar
Hamilton, CANADA
Joined Sep 2009
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Definitely +1.... long time ago established as Canadian beer....


Quote:
Originally Posted by s2000 View Post
This thread just isn't going to amount to much, it's like arguing about which beer is best.
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Old Jan 10, 2014, 12:36 AM
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near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
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Now, finally, we're getting somewhere. Is there an official beer of RC soaring enthusiasts? And if so can we start a category for "Official Hard Cider of International RC Soaring"? Not to hijack the thread or anything...

Chris B.
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Old Jan 10, 2014, 12:50 AM
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Launceston Tasmania
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Might I suggest an "Estrella Artois"? It's good with bloody steak.
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Old Jan 10, 2014, 04:21 AM
VHO
glider misguider
Armidale NSW Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFragnasty View Post
Might I suggest an "Estrella Artois"? It's good with bloody steak.
Watch you language young fella, there's no need for swearing on this family channel
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