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Old Nov 25, 2010, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
RCSF is OK on the inside, but the covers have a way of making sure it will never be something that comes as a subscription to my house.

Andy
What? What's on the cover that would keep you from subscribing?

Fly R/C (to me) is the epitome of what an R/C magazine should not be! However, I think Andrew Coholic is probably the best engine guy writing on the subject, today
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Old Nov 25, 2010, 06:34 AM
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But Chuck, thats not building, thats assembling kits, the only difference to "almost ready to fly/crash" models is how much is done for you. Building to me means designing, drawing plans, sourcing materials etc and constructing and finishing.
Stop this! What I see you saying is: "Only I'm doing it the right way"! It has to be this, it has to be that! I'm a scratch builder, also and I say this: BIG DEAL, SO YOU SCRATCH BUILD! You want to say your a "Scratch Builder", fine! But, these clear cut divisions some of you feel are so necessary, cause derision and detract from the purpose of this thread, which is to promote the building aspect of the radio control airplane hobby!

This thread has been pretty good about not heading down this road! So, can we keep it from heading into the alfalfa, please?
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Old Nov 25, 2010, 11:02 AM
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Old Nov 25, 2010, 01:04 PM
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OTOH I sourced all the parts for a kit car and after I'd put it together I was pretty certain that I HAD built a car...even though the chassis and most of the bodywork were part of a kit I bought rather anything designed and fully fabricated by me.

Not that it matters. I've built planes from my own designs in all sorts of materials, built from kits, assembled ARFs and flown RTF "toys". All of those seem to me to be a legitimate part of the hobby I choose to pursue. If anyone is foolish enough to believe that one way of getting a little plane flying is the right way and all the other ways are in some sense "wrong" I feel rather sorry for them. Whichever single version they they insist is right they're missing out on a lot with all the others .

Steve
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Old Nov 26, 2010, 09:32 AM
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This thread has been pretty good about not heading down this road! So, can we keep it from heading into the alfalfa, please?
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Old Nov 26, 2010, 11:49 AM
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I take some minor offense to those that say that I don't scratch build because I'm all for instant gratification. I don't scratch build because for me the planes are only platforms for my own electronics which I do scratch build and that takes, dare I say, a helluva lot more time and money than you will spend on any model (unless it's a turbine model...then maybe they are on par. I wave the white flag and multi-turbine models lol.). It would be like me saying anyone who buys their own radio and receivers just wants instant gratification. Or some narrow-minded old-timers saying that electrics are just toys and only gas/nitro is real RC.

Although it is rather painful to sort of "squeeze what I have into a can that doesn't quite fit." So I'm looking at vacuum bagging foam wings. I'm not sure if you consider that scratch built or not. I did do a laser-cut build once (the first one I ever did!) and frankly found it to be a PITA around the end. THe beginning and middle must not have been so bad though since I did get through that without a fuss. It was rather cool to see the wing skeleton slowly form on the table. But I am more of a mechanic than a craftsman.
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Old Nov 26, 2010, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
This thread has been pretty good about not heading down this road! So, can we keep it from heading into the alfalfa, please?
I think that's good advice. We should all continue discussing model building and if any of you suddenly feel an inclination to go on about rambling into forage crops please resist the temptation .

Steve
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Old Nov 26, 2010, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
What? What's on the cover that would keep you from subscribing?

Fly R/C (to me) is the epitome of what an R/C magazine should not be! However, I think Andrew Coholic is probably the best engine guy writing on the subject, today
I guess you and I have different standards.

I have 7 kids, 3 of them still at home. I do not need them to think of women as something to sell products. I find it very offensive and degrading to women. RCSF has repeatedly violated that, much as RCM used to. RCM had great content but lousy covers. On occasion I will bring RCSF home from work (we get them ALL there) to read, but I wouldn't want those covers showing up in my mailbox every month.

I want an airplane magazine about AIRPLANES, not T&A trying to sell me on airplanes.

Andy
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Old Nov 26, 2010, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
I guess you and I have different standards.

I have 7 kids, 3 of them still at home. I do not need them to think of women as something to sell products. I find it very offensive and degrading to women. RCSF has repeatedly violated that, much as RCM used to. RCM had great content but lousy covers. On occasion I will bring RCSF home from work (we get them ALL there) to read, but I wouldn't want those covers showing up in my mailbox every month.

I want an airplane magazine about AIRPLANES, not T&A trying to sell me on airplanes.

Andy
For what it's worth, I admire people like you who have a set of standards, and stick to them.

Congratulations

Chuck
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Old Nov 26, 2010, 04:37 PM
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Andy, you are certainly entitled to your opinion; and I think the magazines (certainly R/C Sport Flyer is not the only one with female models on the covers) would be fine if they eliminated the female models and just had R/C stuff on them. However, the modeling job these women have is exactly that, a JOB and/or a career they are pursuing!

I don't think these women are ever depicted in any type of demeaning manner.

Once again, I'd like to say this thread has been pretty good about not heading down this road! So, can we keep it from heading into the alfalfa, please?
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Old Nov 26, 2010, 05:05 PM
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Thanks, Chuck.

M1 - You're correct. BYF is another one I would not get for the same reason, and besides, there's so little real content in it (it's mostly recycled MAN stuff it seems) that I don't even waste my time with it. RCM was pretty bad. The car mags are totally off-the-wall.

But I think this is one pertinent angle to the topic. We must admit that The Builders will be a small percentage of The Hobbyists. Model Building hasn't gone away by any means. I've said this several times. It has changed, but change is constantly present. 60+ years ago there was a similar debate about changing from bamboo to balsa, now it's balsa to foam.

Rather than turning off people to the hobby, we need to recruit them. I have to believe I'm not the only one who doesn't want trashy-covered magazines in their mailbox. Why not promote model aircraft (instead of model females) on the covers? If we can bring 10 people into the hobby and only 2 of them are "real modelers", we've still gained 2 more people who will buy the products WE want to see advertised in magazines.

Another thing - I've never met a magazine editor who wasn't almost BEGGING for construction projects. WE CAN HELP! Take those ideas you've had and submit them to magazines. I'm sure up in northern MN you have plenty of building season (my wife's parents used to live above Mille Lac, I've heard the stories). Your plans don't have to be publication-quality. You'll make more money if they are, but they have artists who take your sketches and turn them into works of art.

Plus, your hobby becomes an income source then, and you can start writing part of it off on your taxes.

SO in summary:

1) Clean up the covers so that men and women don't mind introducing the magazines to their boys AND GIRLS (why give up 50% of the potential market?), and so wives don't mind husbands looking at them, and husbands/fathers don't mind either.

2) Submit construction articles to magazines, encouraging editors to print more and more of them

3) Recognize that "model building" is always changing, and embrace that change.

Andy
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 04:50 AM
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As a more serious example, I have a Parkpilot AMA membership (since I mostly fly alone, and only fly foamies the heaviest of which is 24oz) and get their mag "Park Pilot" as part of the membership. it's full of reviews of ARF/RTF planes. To their credit they do try to have some build'ish articles, but they are usually pretty basic planes. I guess it's tough to balance between the entry folk and those who are more experienced, but still in the park genre.
Maybe because, if they get into building, they would tend to move to a full membership and get Model Aviation magazine which has a lot more on building.

But, putting simple build articles in Park Pilot is a very good thing, as it should encourage some people to try it.
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 06:35 AM
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Andy, To each his own. I asked my wife, who is as much against Woman's exploitation as anyone on this planet, if the covers she's seen on my R/C magazines are exploiting women. I showed her this current month's issue of R/C Sport Flyer Magazine (Nov.) and like myself, she said the women are shown in good taste (not in any type of exploited manner), the women are superfluous to the topic of the magazine, however, this is also an income to them!

I really don't see anything that needs to be cleaned up! My guess is the vast majority of readers see it the same way.

I have to ask: If you feel so strongly that these women are being exploited, why is it O.K. for you to read these magazines at your work?
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 07:07 AM
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I have to ask: If you feel so strongly that these women are being exploited, why is it O.K. for you to read these magazines at your work?
Isn't this what you (rather oddly IMO) keep calling "heading into the alfalfa" ? If not, what on earth do you mean by that, to me, completely incomprehensible phrase ?

Steve
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 12:16 PM
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