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Old Feb 04, 2013, 08:49 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starcad View Post
I'm helping my son spread the rumor that Anonymous hacked the power grid and tried to take out the lights at the Super Bowl!
Sounds feasible. Only snag us, A. Non Y. Mouse technically works for free. Nothing's done for less than bazillions at Moneyball, would free be allowed in?

D
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:18 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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Got to the point where I can finish up the trailing edge. The bottom - which is on the top as the wing's being built inverted - needs sanding down to match the rib profile.

So, lay a length of masking tape on the ribs up against the TE for the half-span. Then sand down using a long sanding block. The tape will protect the ribs from the sandpaper - when the tape wears through, I'll replace it if more sanding is needed.

Of course, before I stick the C channel cap atop the TE and ribs, I will remember to add the hinge doublers on the TE's front face...

D
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 02:44 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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Back to work!

Took the weekend off for me to go to the E Fest at Champaign, and for Spousal Unit to improve the local economy thereabouts - she reckons the sales there this time of year offer better 'American Savings' than Chicago.

Flew the Nutball three times at E Fest - twice on Saturday, once on Sunday. Two out of three involved a mid-air, though foamies are good at brushing each other off. Still, with nearly 20 models in the air and flying indoors at once, what do you expect?

About all that happened to the K-E-os was fitting some doublers back of the LE to handle the two LE dowels. Those dowels will go all the way to the mainspar joiner, but thickening up the LE with 1/4" balsa will help lots as well.

Am going to have to buy a lot of balsa eventually. None of my stock 1/16" was suitable for the LE sheeting, so it was off to the local Michael's craft store, where I got their last three sheets of bend-able and not too heavy 1/16" x 3 x 36. An emailed 20% off coupon helped a surprising amount, but suspect the next project will require me to do a couple of balsa trees in via mail order.

So that's the bottom LE D box sheeting to do, followed by the capstrips, servo bay hatches, wingtips and then it's on to the fuselage and tailfeathers.

I better get a move on.

D
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 03:59 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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Wing's nearly done!

Gluing the LE to the wing locks up the D box good and solid - try bending the wing before and after you glue the LE onto this style of wing structure if you don't believe me.

Getting the LE to the correct shape is as much art as science, despite what some might say... I drew a measured up centreline on the tip rib, then joined it to a centreline mark I'd put on the first LE strip based on the centre of the centreline rib LE. You can see this centreline mark in the photo at left below if you peer closely.

This, for no additional cost, gives me both a clue as to where the wing tips go and a guide to whittlin' down the LE to about the right shape.

Just got the centre section sheet to finish up between mainspars and TE, add the tips, diddle with the servo hatches and do the ailerons.

Being as I know the custom design/build team fairly well and there's a nearby thread on building the BTE V60 in E format, I keep wondering about building another wing with an open frame like the 4*/V60 but to this symmetrical section.

Just to see if there's really than much difference on a nice flying day at the club patch...

Regards

Dereck
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:20 PM
nickeast
Stuart,FL
Joined Mar 2009
557 Posts
Dereck,
Just found this thread... WOW.... I remember Agent 99,ambroid,and
KAOS. Somehow after many tubes of Ambroid and ingesting untold amounts off my fingers and holding the cap between my teeth, I'm still alive. For adding ply doublers, I use weldwood contact cement.... Smells bad but it works and no warps... Hotwired white foam wings are the way to go in my opinion ... Any number of ways to make power supplies and CHEAP bows... I also like a little washout in the wing... Makes landings a little less stressful.
Some of my landings actually leave the plane flyable... Soon I hope to start a thread on another plane from the distant past ... " Miss Kell". It was a control line type and I'm converting to electric R/C.

Keep up the good work....
nick
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 04:57 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Hi Nick
In my case - Humbrol balsa cement, which was made in Hull, the town I grew up in, in the NE of England. The odd name came from 'Humber Oil' - Humber being the big river estuary the town of Hull is on the north edge of, Oil being what they diddled with to make serious money. When I was a kid, I suspect my grandmother was somewhat hooked on the balsa cement and dope fumes I produced a lot of...

How we got anything to stay together, I know not. I recall when 'Araldite' epoxy was 'invented' and a CL flying buddy of mine built an entire profile aerobatic model using the stuff! 12 hour setting time too!

Now, it's woodwork glue and the odd bit of CA as a modern sometime replacement for pins.

Best case I ever heard for washout in aerobatic models was from Keith Shaw, who was flying big aerobatic electrics when most of us couldn't spell 'ESC'. Keith's theory was it made negative G snap rolls from inverted flight much easier

I have tried sheeted foam wings - they were hard to avoid in England, though I never found the 'Round Tuit' over making my own cutting bow. Right now, my excuse is a very small building space and thinking that hotwiring foam in a condo is not bright. Probably not very good excuses, but they'll do

Sticking the rib capstrips on right now, plus about to make up the servo hatches. I really need to make the stabs and diddle with the fuselage too.

D
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 05:07 PM
nickeast
Stuart,FL
Joined Mar 2009
557 Posts
Dereck,

Titebond "yellow" is a favorite of mine as well.... if you ever decide to sheet a foam core (white foam), Gorilla Glue applied as thinly as possible is wonderful.... wing is strong and light ... the FlipStik wing was done like that.... 12 hour drying time was hard... probably ruined several planes with my impatience....

Keep up the good work!

Nick
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:33 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
HI Nick
Not that remembering the name would do any good now, but virtually all the foam/veneer wings made by small English kitters used a hardware store sold glue that you painted onto both surfaces, left a little while, rolled the core onto the Obeche veneer, put it back in the core outers and weighted down for a while. The glue was a sort of stinky not quite a contact adhesive and worked great. Kits usually came with a need to sand the Obeche veneer down to the LE and TE, then glue same on with whatever came handy - often epoxy. Centreline joint was epoxy, then 2" FG bandage epoxied around the joint.

In the case of the likes of the Chris Foss WOT4, a 40 sized high winger usually flown with a tuned pipe 60, that actually hung together well!

Oddly enough, Titebond is usually responsible for holding my models together. Before that, white PVA had the job. 'Balsa glue', as it was universally known, dates back to my CL days before I took up bike racing at 14 years old.

I seldom have done things in a normal fashion

Am contemplating a second wing for the K-E-os involving the same section, but with a Four Star-ish structure, just to see if there's an advantage, one way or t'other. Or perhaps a similar shaped model but with a Four Star style section. After all, in the eleven years I flew it, no-one ever suggested my Four Star 40E lacked in inverted attitude. It's a durn sight easier to build as well!

Cheers

Dereck
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 07:27 AM
Registered User
Wallingford, Ct
Joined Sep 2001
1,890 Posts
The stall will likely be different with a soft front end. It might well be delayed and it might be softer. When weighting down the sheeted cores, I found it helpful to use a couple of old locomotives you might have hanging around. Had a club member who got a slab of ground granite from Rock of Ages in VT to support the pile of wings. He usually did a bunch at a time. They came out good, but I forget what adhesive he used.

Al
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 03:31 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2009
301 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
Am contemplating a second wing for the K-E-os involving the same section, but with a Four Star-ish structure, just to see if there's an advantage, one way or t'other. Or perhaps a similar shaped model but with a Four Star style section. After all, in the eleven years I flew it, no-one ever suggested my Four Star 40E lacked in inverted attitude. It's a durn sight easier to build as well!

Dereck
I would really like to see you do this & then get your views about the differences in flying characteristics between the 4*/V60 type wings & your K-E-os. I haven't flown a 4* & am just now finishing the build of the right wing panel on my V60, & I have to say it is a delight to work on. Of course an awful lot of that fun to build comes from the excellent kit materials provided by Bruce Tharpe for the V60. I've built 2 Sig wings (Kadet LT-25 & Kadet Sr) & the V60 is even easier than those . Looking forward to seeing your finished K-E-os.

Jed
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 03:42 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Hi Jed
Though a little off kilter, I built a Sig 1/5th Cub, with the regular wing, a few years back. Laser cut, all modern standards and one of the best kits I've come across. The 4*40 I built a long while back was to their 'regular' die-cut standard - good, but nowhere near the Cub. The 4*20E, which I built running into the Chicago building season (???) is laser cut and will work out fine, though I'd have done some things a little differently. But I always do...

I've built several own design models using something pretty close to Bruce's wing section, albeit with parallel chords, and they all fly fine. Okay, a little push is needed for inverted but on a nice Sunday at the club patch, big deal! They KE fine and manuevre well enough from inverted for sports aerobatics. You'll do fine with your V60E.

D
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 12:12 PM
Visitor from Reality
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Joined Dec 1996
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Okay, nothing spectacular's happening - sanding the wing LE is about as exciting as removing shrink-wrap - so here's an aileron servo bay all done bar covering and making a 1/16" balsa hatch to sit on those ledges built around the servo bay perimeter.

The longest Hitec servo arms will just protrude from the hatch as built here. One day, I might even get some plastic covers to streamline things even more, though I doubt it

I think I really need to make the tailfeathers next. At this point, a sheet or two of stiff, light 1/4" balsa could save me a lot of time. The ailerons are already 'done' - as was the fashion back in its day, my take on the Kaos will have its ailerons tapered in cross section - have some 5/16" x 1.5" 'aileron strip' in my balsa box.

They will be depressingly heavier than 1/4" flat sheet, a la Four Star 40, but should look a little slinkier... Honest.

Must remember to put the wingtips on before launching into aileron matters - they go all the way to the outer ends of the tips.

D
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 02:32 PM
Visitor from Reality
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Joined Dec 1996
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Snow's falling again, so I did the wingtips. While the 'full size' has carved block tips, my IMAA legal model gets 1/8" balsa to the right shape, with gussets to support it on the the tip rib and some odd scraps to fair in the LE and TE areas.

For a change from making two right hand fuselage sides, I had carefully cut the 5/16" x 1.5" aileron stock - possibly the most expensive balsa in the BDF - to length.

Before I mounted the wingtips

This meant the ailerons were 1.5" too short. Alternates were to stick a short length of TE stock on the back of those new tips as per the handy photo, or glue a bit back on the end of the aileron.

As most of the Kaos/Chaos breeds look to have full span ailerons with no fixed portion at the wingtip, I went with grafting a piece onto my short cut ailerons. Yes, I could have tossed the incorrectly cut bits into the scrap box and used another pair of ditto sized 36" lengths, but Ooh! The cost of this blunder!

Next comes painting some more white doors around the condo, in sync with joining up the basics of the fuselage so I can diddle up the wing dowels and bolts, plus figure out if the tailplane will actually fit, or did my custom design/build service foul up the tailfeathers as well?

Onward, but no sign of upward yet.

D
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 08:33 PM
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FlyingW's Avatar
Long Valley, NJ, USA
Joined Dec 2001
1,688 Posts
Dereck,

No worries - I've cut expensive stock too short even after measuring it correctly! Solved as you did by splicing on the needed extension either before the horn on the inboard end, or at the tip.

Full d-box and cap strips looks very strong. Nicely done.

Paul
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 08:38 AM
Visitor from Reality
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Oddly enough, there's some spliced up aileron stock on the bench as I type...

Shouldn't have mentioned it, or should have claimed to have spliced up the ailerons from shorter pieces of wood. Flat 1/4" like the Four Star is much cheaper and less fuss though...

Most of my wings around this size are D box and cap strips. Lots of bits, to be sure, but once that D box is all together, its flat and going nowhere else. The cap strips make finishing the wing off easier - it's real easy to sand flats onto rib edges without them in place.

Yes, sometimes I think it's over-doing it!

D
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