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Old Jan 29, 2013, 07:01 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Are you going to use the aluminum frames with the bearing to mount the flap servo, Tuan?
I sprung for a set with my 4.0, and glad I did. Between that and the full sized 6125, I have not yet had to touch my flap setup since I built the plane, and its still quite tight.

R,
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 09:36 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
Are you going to use the aluminum frames with the bearing to mount the flap servo, Tuan?
I sprung for a set with my 4.0, and glad I did. Between that and the full sized 6125, I have not yet had to touch my flap setup since I built the plane, and its still quite tight.

R,
Target
Those would probably be a bit of overkill for the X's. The linkages are not so short like those on an F3B plane where the pushrod compression forces are huge and thus transferred to the servo arm, bearings, case, mounting frame, then skin.

I am doing the flap servos with the wood frame, but block them so they tie into the upper skin and the main spar. I would think this method yield less flex than using the aluminum mount without tying into the spar or upper skin.

The bearings would be beneficial as they do provide extra support, however the amount of time the J planes are in high speed mode is but a few seconds here and there and one never pulls enough flaps in the high speed case that would make the extra support of the external bearings a necessity if the rest are solidly installed.

Bottom line, for me at least, is that I would worry more about the arm slipping on the output shaft than the flex of that final gear if there was that amount of compression force on the servo.

I'd actually like to use some flat carbon pushrods with holes at the ends that a rod slides into. the rod is held in place by carbon tubes at the flap end and an aluminum servo arm. The thicker wing allows this system to work very nicely.
Like that in the picture courtesy of fly-up85
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:29 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
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Ok.

R,
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:08 AM
Flightcomp.com
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United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Apr 2006
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I did a build recently with metal trays and extra bearing supports, added over 1.5 oz to the build, I don't know if they are worth it in F3J models.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:33 AM
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United States, AZ, Buckeye
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That's what I was wondering. Thanks for giving the weight of the increase.

Joe
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:56 AM
Sink Stinks
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Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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These guys have some nice frames, including some with a bearing. John at HKM-USA can get them.

http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vend...&c=1158&p=1158
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:38 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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I used the metal frame on JUST my flaps of the 4.0.
Each frame weighed 7g (I weighed them). I added 14g (1/2oz) to my plane, and helped prevent the shaft from rocking.
For me, the extra 1/2 oz and $35 was totally worth it.

R,
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:34 AM
Flightcomp.com
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United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Apr 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
These guys have some nice frames, including some with a bearing. John at HKM-USA can get them.

http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vend...&c=1158&p=1158
Aha! Now those look good, and you know the wood must be lighter than the metal frames.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:26 AM
Bro
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Southern California
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Bearings

Howdy,
These work quite well with most any frame..
http://www.soaringusa.com/External-B....0mm--4pk.html

Best,
Bob
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 12:25 AM
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Here are some pics.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 10:34 AM
Always more to Xplore
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near Sacramento, CA
Joined Aug 2010
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Very nice work Tuan. You may be an fnnwizard but you have the heart and skills of an engineer. In the immortal words of Dr McCoy: "I know engineers, they love to change things."

Chris B.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 03:21 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
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Originally Posted by SoaringDude View Post
Very nice work Tuan. You may be an fnnwizard but you have the heart and skills of an engineer. In the immortal words of Dr McCoy: "I know engineers, they love to change things."

Chris B.
Thanks Chris, you can definitely call it out of necessity that I try to optimize where I think it pays the most dividends.

One of my thought process on this (and I would love to hear the true experts' opinion on it as well) is that removing weight from the " 4 corners"... nose, tail and tips helps the rudder to yaw the plane quicker which in turn helps to keep the fuse on avg more inline with the airflow which keeps the airflow more perpendicular to the wing... especially in the low level saves.

We've all seen planes go on drastic diets in the last couple years and it's a great thing. However a big portion of that weigh is not proportional to the 4 corners of the aircraft so the moments of inertia for the aircraft has actually gotten worst. Couple that with a slower airspeed and now the rudder becomes less powerful in a given thermal. It also becomes much more non linear. We might have to kick the rudder more in the begining (reverse expo mix)

Couple this with a lot of people still not using their rudder thumb adequately (can we mention adverse yaw here and incorrect slip?) and you get the "too light" for right observations.

Most people won't realize this at all but on these lighter planes, we will need to mix in more rudder throws for the given ail throws becaseu of airspeed. Not only during roll maneuvers, but also during the steady banking because for the same amount of bank angle, the plane flies at a smaller diameter = more in rudder to keep that airflow perpendicular to the wing. How much more, I don't know right now.

I'll know in a week or 2 if the rudder of this new 3.8X might be on the small side or if it is large enough to be effective in the low level more turbulent stuff.

So, I am satisfy being able to get rid of any amount of weight at the front and rear of this baby... now what to do with the wing tips ....
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 05:04 PM
Daryl Perkins's Avatar
United States, VA, Falls Church
Joined Mar 2007
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Tuan, you're dead on. The fin size on my 67 oz X1 was marginal. Same fuse, same span, same planform, same fin and rudder, and my 53 oz X2 was vastly underfinned.

And you're also right, most won't notice it.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:11 PM
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San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard View Post
So, I am satisfy being able to get rid of any amount of weight at the front and rear of this baby... now what to do with the wing tips ....
Get the 3.5?

Tom
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 06:33 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
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Originally Posted by Kiesling View Post
Get the 3.5?

Tom
Hahaha, I was contemplating doing rds to the 3.8 tips as I did to my first and 2nd Xplorer to keep the ail servo in the center panel. If not then what servo linkages I would use (MKS 6125 minis or Atx809's or ???). Decisions, decisions, decisions, arhgg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl Perkins View Post
Tuan, you're dead on. The fin size on my 67 oz X1 was marginal. Same fuse, same span, same planform, same fin and rudder, and my 53 oz X2 was vastly underfinned.

And you're also right, most won't notice it.
Thanks Daryl for confirming this! So my observations aren't just from lack of thumb exercises this past year
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Last edited by fnnwizard; Feb 01, 2013 at 06:40 PM.
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